Re: [tdf-discuss] Send Messages via Gmane?

"Harold Fuchs" <hwfa.libreoffice@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:i9m7k5$ut1$1@dough.gmane.org...
> "Larry Gusaas" <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:i9lgl4$a59$1@dough.gmane.org...
> > On 2010/10/19 4:27 PM  Jon Hamkins wrote:
> > > On 10/19/2010 10:55 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
> > > > Wrong. The purpose of gmane is to receive and write messages with a
> > > > newsreader rather than an email client.
> > >
> > > Oh, please.
> > >
> > > 1. This purpose is *also* not defeated by having to be subscribed to the 
> > > mailing list.
> >
> > Gmane states on 
> > http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discus:
> > "Status    posting allowed".
> > There should not be a need to nor is the requirement stated that you need 
> > to subscribe to the mailing list as well. Someone going to that page may 
> > decide to post to this list through Gmane. They reply to the confirmation 
> > message they receive from Gmane but their post never appears on the 
> > group. What is there opinion going to be of LibreOffice then?
> >
> > > 2. Gmane offers more than NNTP, it has a web interface too.
> >
> > Yes it does. Your original statement was "The purpose is to be able to 
> > read and write messages on a web forum". You said nothing about NNTP
> >
> > > The first method mentioned for reading the archive is *on the web*. 
> > > Whether one chooses to read from the web or as a newsgroup via NNTP is 
> > > beside the point.
> >
> > The primary purpose of Gmane is to make email lists available through 
> > NNTP. See http://gmane.org/about.php
> >
> >    "This is what Gmane offers. Mailing lists are funneled into news 
> > groups. This isn't a new
> >    idea; several mail-to-news gateways exist. What's new with Gmane is 
> > that no messages are
> >    ever expired from the server, and the gateway is bidirectional"
> >
> > > In fact, for many people, if they read via NNTP, they are still using 
> > > their mail client.  Thunderbird, Outlook Express, etc. are mail clients 
> > > that have built-in newsreading capabilities (and RSS for that matter).
> >
> > I use a newsgroup reader. The fact that Thunderbird is also an email 
> > client is irrelevant.
>
> If this message gets through then I think I've found what seems to be the 
> only way, at the moment at least, to read *and* write the TDF lists via 
> Gmane using an (NNTP) News reader:
> 1. Subscribe an e-mail address of your choice to the "nomail" version of 
> the TDF list. You do this by sending an e-mail to 
> xxx+subscribe-nomail@documentfoundation.org where "xxx" is the name of the 
> lists - users, discuss, announce, whatever. As usual, you will get back a 
> confirmation request to which you must reply.
> 2. Subscribe the same e-mail address to your Gmane news account.
>
> As I say, if this gets through then the above works.
>
> I'm going to wait and see if it does get through before commenting 
> further.
>
>
> --
> Harold Fuchs
> London, England
I said I'd comment further if the above got through. It did, so ...
The following is verbatim from the Gmane page on Posting (go to 
www.gmane.com and click the link "Posting" on the left hand side):

==== begin quote ===
Read-only groups
Some groups are read-only. These are typically groups for announcements, 
publication or CVS log messages. Other groups are non-public. These are 
mailing lists that don't accept messages from non-subscribers. If you try to 
post to either of these kinds of groups, you'll get a bounce message from 
Gmane informing you of this.
Some non-public mailing lists allow you to subscribe, and then alter the 
status of the subscription so that it doesn't actually send you any mail. 
You can then read the group via Gmane, and post to the list "manually" -- by 
sending mail directly to the mailing list.

If, however, the group is neither read-only nor non-public, Gmane will 
forward the message to the mailing list (after going through the 
authorization process described above). The message still might not be 
accepted by the mailing list. This is usually because the list really is 
non-public, but isn't marked as such in Gmane. If this happens to you, 
please send a short mail stating which group is affected to the Gmane 
administrators, and we'll fix the configuration.

=== end quote ===

The first paragraph: "Other groups are non-public. These are mailing lists 
that don't accept messages from non-subscribers. " is where I think the 
"problem" lies. The TDF lists seem to have been set up as "non-public" which 
means you can't post from an unsubscribed address. This is why the 
combination of "nomail" and using the same e-mail address for the list and 
for the Gmane account works. It's a nuisance because it probably means 
having to use a special Gmane account (one with a TDF based address). On the 
other hand it overcomes the perennial "problem" we faced with OOo lists 
where unsubscribed posters were allowed to post.
         ***I don't know if not allowing non-subscribers to post to TDF 
lists was intentional or not*** perhaps someone involved in their set-up 
would comment.

I have another proposal:
1. Put a "Support" button on the LibO toolbar.
2. If the user has not registered LibO, the Support button displays text 
describing how to get support. If the user has registered LibO the Support 
button takes the user directly to the forum, logs him/her in and allows 
him/her to post a question. Answers will be automatically sent to the e-mail 
address the user specified when s/he registered LibO.

This scheme allows the user to get support via e-mail without their in-box 
being flooded with largely irrelevant garbage; it allows for non-techie 
users who don't know anything about NNTP; it allows for non-techie users who 
don't know about web forums and it allows for non-techie users who really 
are not interested in the philosophy of F(L)OSS or in the aims and purposes, 
altruistic or otherwise, of  The Foundation (is Oracle The Empire? Pace 
Isaac Asimov).

Anyway, we now have a method, albeit a kludge, whereby we can read and post 
to the TDF lists via Gmane without receiving thousands of e-mails. So, a 
minor victory, thanks largely to Charles Marcus for pointing out the 
"nomail" option.


--
Harold Fuchs
London, England




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