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Hi Bernhard,

Thanks for writing and sharing this.
I think what you write about the focus on what is really important right now, and the good practice not to damage that process, is very valuable!


Bernhard Dippold wrote (03-01-11 22:38)
Hi Marc, Michael, all,

Marc Paré schrieb:
Disclaimer: I am on the Drupal team and think that this is the
better solution for the LibreOffice CMS solution.

It's your right to think what you want to - you are even allowed to post
your thoughts ;-)

... as long as these postings don't cause hindrances and drawbacks to
the LibreOffice community.

The SC decision was clear in one point:

We need to create the LibreOffice website in the shortest possible time
- and therefore SilverStripe was the CMS to start with and Drupal will
be an option for the future.

[...] It is therefore logical to consider that [...] if a group
decides to work on a Drupal solution, it is their prerogative and,
that these contributing members will therefore be able to work on
this solution as their time permits. If so many of these members
decide to work on the Drupal solution to the detriment of the
Silverstripe solution, then, again, the SC will perhaps have to
reconsider its choice of CMS accordingly.

You're totally right. But the reconsideration might be different than
you think of...

I just rephrase your last sentence according to the SC decision:

If so many of the community members decide to work on a version that
might become a solution in the further future instead of contributing to
the urgently needed short term solution, then the SC might have to
reconsider its decision in a way that leads to more contributors for the
website we need *now* - not later on.

Of course it it everybody's free choice to work in any area of our
community. But if this work begins to hinder other *more important* and
*really necessary* work, it is on the Steering Committee's agenda to
find a way that leads in the right direction.

I'm not a member of the SC, so it's just my personal suggestion:

Please avoid *any* action that might been understood as inviting people
to the Drupal team instead of the general website team.

Our website needs to represent the high quality of our product and the
professionalism of our community - at the latest when LibO 3.3 will be
released. If you don't see this urgency - or think it has lower priority
than working on the Drupal site - you might be considered as not
supporting the LibreOffice community, but want to establish a Drupal
branch inside LibO.

If you have the skills to work on the short term goal, so please donate
your time and expertise to the community. The community doesn't need any
work on the Drupal site now: It lacks of website content, design
improvement and active contribution on the SilverStripe site.

For the last three weeks David Nelson has done a tremendous work,
creating the current LibO website from scratch without any help and
improving the design now (together with one or two others being able to
spend a bit of their time).

In the meantime you created a Drupal website, filled it with content and
created your own design around it.

Please consider to contribute to the *real* website from Jan 10th on,
when David presents his new design.

If the Drupal site seems to have outpaced that of the Silverstripe,
the credit should go to the Drupal team contributors who are more
adept at creating a Drupal CMS site. It would make no sense to ask a
Drupal experienced contributors to slow down because the Silverstripe
team is not able to keep up to their development.

As you read several times in this thread and elsewhere on the mailing
lists, TDF and LibO are not AGAINST anything, they are FOR! This is not
only meant for marketing activities outside the community, but even more
for interactions inside the LibO community!

So your competitive attitude AGAINST the SilverStripe team should be
reconsidered in my opinion - especially as the SilverStripe team
consists of the people who want to have a high quality website at the
time of the LibO release!

The Drupal team is currently working hard to deliver this solution
within the 6 months delay accorded by the SC. It may, in fact, be
able to present to the membership a working site within an earlier
time frame that was firstly accorded, thanks to the team's hard

And then the Drupal team might see that their work can't be considered
by the relevant people in the community, because they still work hard on
the existing website...

I could imagine that the SC postpones any activity on Drupal until the
*real thing* is in a professional state...

It will then be up to the membership to give constructive criticism
to the newly worked Drupal site to see if this is what will work
best for LibreOffice. After all, the same is happening in the
documentation team with their different projects. Let's keep an open

I'm not involved in documentation, so I can't comment on the activities
there. But I don't know about a SC decision for one solution now and
considering another solution later on.

Here *is* a clear decision by the highest board in LibreOffice: We need
the SilverStripe site *first* and will consider Drupal *later*.

Open mind doesn't mean inversion of such decisions...

Please do visit the Drupal site to see its development[2],

Please improve the present LibreOffice website before you visit the
Drupal site!

please do test out sections of the site when announcements go out for
its testing phase,

Please improve the present LibreOffice website before you test the
Drupal site!

please do criticise in order to help out in order to improve the

Please improve the present LibreOffice website before you criticize the
Drupal site!

This is all in the spirit of creating a great CMS site of choice for
the LibreOffice final home destination.

I'm still convinced, that Drupal will be the right decision for our
Internet presence at some time in the future. For me it's nearly
irrelevant, if this will be in half a year, one year or later.

What we need *now*, is active work on the present website - nothing else
for the website team.

As to why I consider the Drupal CMS the right solution?

You want to restart the entire discussion, that took us hours and days
we needed for other important tasks?

Please don't!

If you see that the present website needs help - why don't you help?

You would help the community *now* and would gain merit for the day you
want to present the Drupal site as valid alternative.


In the meantime, many of the Drupal team have put aside their time
to help out. I had offered help with the documentation and started,
but stepped aside for David [...]

This is what is much more important than asking people to contribute to
the Drupal development now.
(But when you stepped aside in documentation, you might have time to
contribute to the real website...)

Please show your presence on the website mailing list and help improving
the real website when David shows his new proposal in one weeks time.
This contribution will be highly appreciated - and it might improve the
Drupal site too, as the considerations and decisions for the present
website will probably be valid for the future too...

Best regards


PS: I hope you understand my position as personal opinion, even if I
heard similar comments by others. If you want to discuss the content of
this mail, you're welcome to post your opinions, but my replies might
become short or late - this topic took me already much more time than I
wanted to spend. But as I still think that we all aim at a common goal,
I try to find a way how we can work together - not against each other!

 - giving its foundation :: The Document Foundation -

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