Re: Re: [tdf-discuss] Basic question about Oracle asking OOo community members to leave

Hello *,

maybe the problem is OOo has the fear that TDF people with
responsabilities in OOo use the OOo resources in favor of TDF?

I'm not talking about Charles, but i.e in the Spanish Communitiy the
Project Leader has closed the subscription to the OOo spanish mailing
lists with the label "Migrating lists to TDF", and you can only easily
subscribe to the TDF lists. What would you do if you were in charge of
the OOo project after such things?
I expect the most of TDF, but we should understand the position of the
OOo leader and other people in Oracle.

And please, guys, let's stop calling the people that didn't decide to
move to TDF the "Oracle bad guys". There's a lot of people in OOo that
doesn't work for Oracle. And I met some of the "Oracle bad guys" during
those years and they're nice guys. Furthermore, some of them are the
true builders of what OpenOffice and even LibreOffice is now. They
deserve, at least, my respect. And they're need as most of us a salary
to live, salary payed before by Sun but now payed by Oracle.

Best Greetings,

Ra

Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> Hello Marco,
>
> Le Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:58:14 +0200,
> "M. Fioretti" <mfioretti@nexaima.net> a écrit :
>
> > On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 12:00:56 PM +0200, Charles-H. Schulz
> > (charles.schulz@documentfoundation.org) wrote:
> >
> > > On the other hand, I and others do not tolerate being "fired" by
> > > Oracle. Resigning is one thing, being kicked out is another one.
> > > Resigning is a logical consequence of our actions that will actually
> > > happen soon, being kicked out and accepting it means we acknowledge
> > > that Oracle has the right of life and death over the OOo
> > > community. Good thing we went to open the Document Foundation then!
> > Charles,
> >
> > reading stuff like this doesn't make me feel like I'm being treated
> > like an adult.
> >
> > Here's what I actually read in the paragraph I quoted:
> >
> >        You will not acknowledge that you won't accept anymore the fact
> >        that Oracle has right of life and death over the OOo community
> >        now, by "being kicked out and accepting it". Because you've
> >        already acknowledged that you wouldn't accept that right in the
> >        very moment when you announced TDF, by creating it.
> >
> >        You wanted since the beginning Oracle to fire you, to prove
> >        that they are indeed tyrants (which they proved quite well,
> >        IMHO)
> >
> >        And this is the only reason why such a logical consequence of
> >        your action as resigning didn't happen simultaneously to the
> >        announcement of TDF. I honestly can't imagine any other
> >        obstacle.
> >
> > If I completely misunderstood or missed something, please explain. In
> > any case, as far as I am concerned none of the above means that
> > creating TDF was wrong or that I approve what Oracle did. I am just
> > saying that this side of the whole messy matter doesn't seem to have
> > been managed properly, and that statements like the one above are,
> > uhm, a bit weak?
>
> What I may have not written clearly, is 2 things:
> -first and foremost we always kept the door open for Oracle. If we had
> wanted to do a fork, we would have indeed resigned almost on the same
> day I think. Now the behaviour of Oracle being what it is, the
> situation is being clarified, so to speak.
> -in French we say that there is "l'art et la manière". You can send me
> a private message, as an Oracle employee, asking me : "so Charles, when
> are you guys going away?" but if you send a public message kicking us
> out on vague grounds, ignoring our very own guidelines, that's very
> different. 
>
> So of course, I'm not trying to say that I'm surprised that such
> consequences of our action happen, and I was not trying to be
> disingenuous or not treating you like an adult in my message. But what
> I'm saying is that we were surprised by the tone, the way, the
> brutality of Oracle's answer, which seems unnecessary, and too early.
> We have not even started to "talk" and we're being thrown out? Again,
> our doors are open, but Oracle, through that move, does not seem to be
> interested and is behaving in a rude and violent way. 
> Also of interest: I am  very surprised that Oracle, or rather the
> Oracle's employees contributing to OOo, are chasing us out as if we
> were 5 idiots. Let's not talk numbers here, but let's just say that it
> would be a conservative estimate if I said that 80 percent of the NLC
> and the QA project (and I'm not talking about the others) are moving to
> TDF. So Oracle has either become blind on what's going on on their
> mailing lists, bugtrackers and commits or it is effectively saying: we
> don't acknowledge that our community is leaving (and yes, there are and
> will always be exceptions). That, to me, is a failure, it's a community
> "management" failure. 
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Charles. 

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