Re: [tdf-discuss] Basic question about Oracle asking OOo community members to leave

Hello Marco,

Le Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:58:14 +0200,
"M. Fioretti" <mfioretti@nexaima.net> a écrit :

> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 12:00:56 PM +0200, Charles-H. Schulz
> (charles.schulz@documentfoundation.org) wrote:
>
> > On the other hand, I and others do not tolerate being "fired" by
> > Oracle. Resigning is one thing, being kicked out is another one.
> > Resigning is a logical consequence of our actions that will actually
> > happen soon, being kicked out and accepting it means we acknowledge
> > that Oracle has the right of life and death over the OOo
> > community. Good thing we went to open the Document Foundation then!
>
> Charles,
>
> reading stuff like this doesn't make me feel like I'm being treated
> like an adult.
>
> Here's what I actually read in the paragraph I quoted:
>
>        You will not acknowledge that you won't accept anymore the fact
>        that Oracle has right of life and death over the OOo community
>        now, by "being kicked out and accepting it". Because you've
>        already acknowledged that you wouldn't accept that right in the
>        very moment when you announced TDF, by creating it.
>
>        You wanted since the beginning Oracle to fire you, to prove
>        that they are indeed tyrants (which they proved quite well,
>        IMHO)
>
>        And this is the only reason why such a logical consequence of
>        your action as resigning didn't happen simultaneously to the
>        announcement of TDF. I honestly can't imagine any other
>        obstacle.
>
> If I completely misunderstood or missed something, please explain. In
> any case, as far as I am concerned none of the above means that
> creating TDF was wrong or that I approve what Oracle did. I am just
> saying that this side of the whole messy matter doesn't seem to have
> been managed properly, and that statements like the one above are,
> uhm, a bit weak?

What I may have not written clearly, is 2 things:
-first and foremost we always kept the door open for Oracle. If we had
wanted to do a fork, we would have indeed resigned almost on the same
day I think. Now the behaviour of Oracle being what it is, the
situation is being clarified, so to speak.
-in French we say that there is "l'art et la manière". You can send me
a private message, as an Oracle employee, asking me : "so Charles, when
are you guys going away?" but if you send a public message kicking us
out on vague grounds, ignoring our very own guidelines, that's very
different. 

So of course, I'm not trying to say that I'm surprised that such
consequences of our action happen, and I was not trying to be
disingenuous or not treating you like an adult in my message. But what
I'm saying is that we were surprised by the tone, the way, the
brutality of Oracle's answer, which seems unnecessary, and too early.
We have not even started to "talk" and we're being thrown out? Again,
our doors are open, but Oracle, through that move, does not seem to be
interested and is behaving in a rude and violent way. 
Also of interest: I am  very surprised that Oracle, or rather the
Oracle's employees contributing to OOo, are chasing us out as if we
were 5 idiots. Let's not talk numbers here, but let's just say that it
would be a conservative estimate if I said that 80 percent of the NLC
and the QA project (and I'm not talking about the others) are moving to
TDF. So Oracle has either become blind on what's going on on their
mailing lists, bugtrackers and commits or it is effectively saying: we
don't acknowledge that our community is leaving (and yes, there are and
will always be exceptions). That, to me, is a failure, it's a community
"management" failure. 

Hope that helps,

Charles. 


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