Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Do not support writing to OOXML format

Barbara,

First, ODF IS the ISO standard - honestly made so without the dirty
tricks that MS used to stuff the committee and force it to approve
something that wasn't ready to be used by anyone.

Second, MS refuses to support any ODF except the one that is actually an
ISO standard.  That makes their version of ODF suspect as to its actual
compatibility.

I don't suggest using the same tactics on MS as it is using on Open
Source Software.  Doing to others as they do to you is NOT a recommended
tactic for honest people or organizations (though it's too often been
used, in my arrogant opinion [There AIN'T no such thing as a humble
opinion]).

By being able to read .doc and .docx formats LO demonstrates it's
willingness to at least reach out to MS and its customers.  Therefore,
LO ends up being the good guy.

Craig
Tyche

On 01/01/2011 03:29 PM, Barbara Duprey wrote:
> On 1/1/2011 11:07 AM, Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:
> > Hi Sveinn,
> >
> > > Sure, but how about conservation and readability by future generations
> > > (when there's no more Microsoft knowledge around and nobody knows
> > > anymore how to decrypt all the nuances of.doc + .docx files) ?
> > Fair point.
> >
> > But: most users do not care.  Not exporting to Word will make it look
> > like LibO is faulty.
> >
> > I have to save in MSO formats to share work with others.  At work, we
> > have an MSO policy.
> > While I can use whatever I like on my desktop, I have to save
> > spreadsheets in MSO formats
> > because Excel 07 kills ODS formulae.  If I prepare a document as ODT,
> > the few Word 2003
> > dies-hards complain I am refusing to inter-operate.  I do still assign
> > student work to be
> > submitted as either .doc or .odt and mark students down for using
> > .docx (they failed to read
> > the instructions).  They are also marked down for not using proper
> > spacing and a serif font.
> >
> > I don't want to see the .docx format spread any further and advocate
> > using ODT as the
> > default.  However, not having the option to export as .doc and .docx
> > will cause users to
> > wonder if they want to promote LibO.
>
> I don't think anybody is saying LibO should drop .doc export -- just not
> try to export to the OOXML "Transitional" formats. In theory, MS will go
> to OOXML "Strict" in the 2014 (or whenever) release, and that should by
> then be a truly open format, if the comments submitted to the standards
> committee are properly worked off. Meanwhile, exporting to the
> "Transitional" form for new documents is specifically deprecated in the
> ISO standard; doing that really plays into a possible MS strategy to
> continue to ignore the "Strict" version forever, maintaining the
> proprietary lock-in while claiming to be open.
>
> Several of the comments here suggest a middle road, allowing the save
> but with a message clarifying the limitations of the format (and perhaps
> recommending use of the XP formats if interoperating with an MS-only
> shop; their ODF support is not truly interoperable at a reasonable
> level, the older formats come closer). That seems reasonable, at least
> for editing documents that are received in these formats -- I'm not
> convinced it should be allowed for new work, though. At the least, the
> SaveAs dialog should label the format using the word Transitional. It
> probably makes sense to start working towards OOXML "Strict" export as
> soon as that is a reasonably stationary target, though. Wouldn't it be
> great if LibO were the first implementation compliant with the ISO
> standard? And if the other FOSS implementations also headed there, we
> could beat MS at their own game!
>
> > > > It must be arrogant for them to send you a format you don't support.
> > > > Also, if the Win 7 users don't know what format the documents are in,
> > > > why does it matter if it's returned to them in a .doc format?
> > > Think you hit the nail on the head, pal.
> > > Those who ignore any notion of a file format, will do it both ways,
> > > always, anyways...
> > Office on-the-web only saves in docx.  Office 2013/4 will quite
> > possibly drop .doc export,
> > just as Word 6/95 export was dropped from Word 2003 - after a failed
> > attempt to drop it
> > from 2000.  MS can do this because they are the market leader.  To
> > fail to offer even
> > rudimentary docx export would damage LibO's market penetration.
> >
> > my thoughts anyway!
> >
> > zf

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