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Marc Paré wrote:
Le 2010-11-26 15:16, Robert Derman a écrit :
Marc Paré wrote:
Le 2010-11-25 14:44, Robert Derman a écrit :
With all the discussion of the size of the download package and the
difficulty of including things like manuals I suddenly realized that
perhaps we are going about this thing entirely wrong! Perhaps what we
should do is offer a CHOICE of several download packages, not just one
take it or leave it package.

A basic download package with just the core LO Office Suite, like what
we have had up to now, and as an alternative, a Complete package
including users manual(s), templates, extensions, clip art, fonts,
anything else that should be in a complete package. Perhaps we could
even offer a Writer Only package without Calc, Draw, Impress, Base, or
Math, and with just a BRIEF users manual for Writer. I suspect that
there may be many home users that just want a word processor and aren't
at all interested in the rest of the suite.

Different users have very different internet connections, some are still
dial up. Some are DSL, and some are Cable and have huge bandwidth.
Offering only a One-Size-Fits-All package may no longer be the best

Hi Robert:

Yes this would be ideal. However, this would also impact our
developers and add to their work. I, myself, would favour Barbara's
suggestion of having a link offering the user the to download extra
packages such as manuals. BTW ... I don't believe, at this point, that
the downloading the LibreOffice into different modules (Writer,
Impress, Calc etc) is possible. There has been talk of it but I
believe this would require a rewrite of the code.

Actually this would have NO significant impact on developers workload.
It is a simple matter of creating a set of folders to download rather
than a single one. I haven't used Linux for a while, (it was Lindows, or
perhaps Freespire) anyway even with that, like with Windows, it is a
simple matter of drag and drop. Each downloadable package should be very
plainly labeled as to how many megabytes it contains. (also a listing of
its contents) As far as a Writer only package, that naturally would have
to wait until after a major rewrite of the code, which I understand from
what I have read here on Discuss, is coming. Whether such an option is
ever offered would probably depend on the results of a survey.
Now I know that this would require more space on the download server,
but in this day of 1 terabyte hard drives selling on the internet for
$60.00 US dollars, that is probably not a big deal.

Actually if I had to guess, it would be that 40% to 50% of users only
ever use the Writer module and never use any of the rest of the suite. I
myself am in that group. I am thinking that even for Writer only users
there might be some that want a very minimal package, Just the core
program and perhaps a very short manual, while others might want an
extensive manual and lots of templates, extensions and clip art.

I would have not problem with this. Sounds reasonable. How about if we had an installation where it offered the users these choices upfront and the same "page of offerings" would be offered in the "Help" menu. This would make it a familiar page both at the install stage and once the user familiarized herself/himself with the programme. We would have to find a way to advertise extensions and plugins so that users would be aware of their availability.

Marc, I think we are essentially on the same page now. I should probably tell everyone a little about my experience so that you will understand my skill levels. I am a retired system builder. Over the years I have built about a thousand computers, all had M$ operating systems installed on them. I was one of those people who was slow to warm to Windows, I always thought that M$ didn't do nearly enough to improve DOS. I only ever built 1 machine with that piece of crap, Vista on it. I talked everyone else into having me install XP. I was never able to talk anyone into Linux. I did however install Linux on a bunch of donated machines that I refurbished for donation to non-profits. They all got Linspire or Freespire with built in OOo. And yes, Linspire and Freespire were actually easier to install than Win XP. I probably should also mention that once OOo became available, it pre-installed it on every computer I built. I got a lot of thank-yous for that!

Now as to having a variety of download packages, all would have the exact same LO program suite. the only difference would be in the "Extras" packaged with it. these would probably all be in a separate sub folder. The Basic package would be only the LO Office Suite itself. Then there could be an intermediate package with a fairly brief manual, <200 pages, perhaps the top 10 of extensions and the top 20 templates, whatever, and a good selection of clip art. Then finally a "Complete package" with an extensive manual, all popular templates and extensions, and an extensive collection of fonts and clip art.

It would probably take 100 times longer to decide what to put in the good, better, best packages than to actually prepare them for downloading to users.

Maybe at each install we could offer the user a "subscription" to a monthly "LibreOffice Magazine" that would highlight extensions and "What's New!" in the LibreOffice world. [I really like this idea]

There could be a downloading on-site menu PRIOR to downloading the
suite offering extra downloadable options or a menu in the
installation routine (AFTER downloading the suite) that would offer
you a choice of downloading extra items such as the manual.

Of these two options, I would prefer being offered the menu AFTER
having downloaded the LO suite. The reason for this: some users may
find that downloading the suite took a longer than the anticipated
time and they would not have enough time/patience to download the
additional items.On the other hand, if the LO suite had taken less
anticipated time to download, the user may feel it right to download
the extra items.
Here I really must disagree, I think pretty much everyone knows what
sort of internet connection they have, and therefore if the downloadable
packages are plainly labeled as to size in megabytes, (which they
certainly should be) then they would know what sort of download time is
involved. The only real variable here being if the download server is
overloaded, and if you watch your download speeds you will know if that
is the case.

There should probably be a couple of download packages offered for those
that downloaded a basic package and later wished that they had
downloaded more.

Yes, this is easily said when we are on a high speed connection. We need to remember, that we should always take into consideration our members who have dial-up or cellphone connection only. Our downloads should be as sleek and quick as possible to enable these groups. [Perhaps the most honest and kindest thing we could do for those on dial-up is to suggest that they send for the package of their choice on disk and forget about downloading it altogather. Even the most basic package, just the Office Suite itself without anything added is far too much for a dial-up download. (I used to have dial-up, and I know its limitations) I think it would be a very good thing if LO provided a link on the download website to a place where they could order the disk. Making a larger download will only turn some away from using the suite or participating in our membership if all is constructed from a high speed perspective. We will have more mass user penetration if our downloads are available to all users, regardless of internet connection.
{This is exactly why I think we should offer a choice of packages, If you have a broadband connection, you should be able to get a fairly complete package which might only take 2-3 minutes longer to download than the most minimal package. Also even in the U.S. there are about 15% of computer users that have NO internet connection of any kind. the only way they will ever be able to get LO is on disk. (Actually the only way these people will likely ever get LO is if we can get the disk into retail channels.) A CD disk has enough space for the basic program plus every manual the user might need, plus probably every template and extension in existence plus an extensive collection of clip art. In my opinion, there is no reason to make disks that are 75% unused. The user can just decide how much of it they want to install.}

Robert Derman

P.S. I hope we can find a company or group of volunteers that can make an LO package available on disk. I think it should be possible to make it available for no more than 5 US dollars or equivalent including shipping. For those folks with NO internet connection, it would be best if we could get the disk into retail channels. For these people, if a software program is not available at retail, then it simply doesn't exist.

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