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In response to Fabian:

Proposing ideas and bug fixes and changes in proprieterary software
probably isn't the right direction unless libreoffice have developers that
are working in partnership on referencing systems in proprieterary
software. Which I believe at this stage they do not.

I understand your example with microsoft onenote. A program I have used
myself, and I can understand its innovation and ideas, but that software
has broadened markets such as being available on different hardware, etc
the iOS platform and the Internet with storage of Microsoft skydrive.

In regards to the referencing system in LO. zotero is an extension that I
have used with LO.  Although it works very well with compatability with  LO
its referencing systems are incompatible with Microsoft office. I think
that is an issue with LO, and Microsoft office referencing systems. I will
confirm this from a email from zotero about this issue.

As a result, I believe this is a main issue and concern with referencing
systems in LO.  compatability with properitary software referencing systems
etc MO.

Referencing systems and making bibliographies I believe in LO needs to be
created for users with a simplistic default interface without add ons and
extensions to avoid in compatability with different versions of software
releases from zotero and LO.

My problem is having a reference from libreoffice and trying to use it on
Mo. it is not compatible.

But. The only way to make the software more compatible for users is to
propose a new referencing system in libreoffice, that would allow the
document to be read in a format in which both office suites would
understand. An example would be PDF and integrating referencing
compatabilities in a PDF.  or referencing systems with .doc files.
I'm still not clear about this topic.

LO needs a new default  referencing system because I believe it is not
clear enough or fast enough to store references for users using libreoffice
writer. There are some confusing steps involved including using the
bibliographic database where functions do not make sense.
LO should consider options I believe to make referencing separate from
libreoffice base and making  2 referencing systems. One that integrates a
utility with storing references using endnotes and footnotes with a simpler
and faster design that can be used for advanced users in base to store
multiple references for a main project, with a design that is based on the
storage of references only. This can be from books images videos and
websites.  and a simpler system for users that want to generate a reference
that is created with the usage of forms and detailed texts that can be
linked to end notes and footnotes without the reference being stored in
libreoffice base.


On Sunday, 15 July 2012, lj wrote:

In response to Charles:

I am proposing a future set of ideas for discussion about libreoffice and
it's referencing system as I believe it is not very good at the moment
compared to other software open source proprietary in the way that
companies create referencing systems.


On Friday, 13 July 2012, Fabian Rodriguez wrote:

On 07/12/2012 08:03 PM, lj wrote:
If this is is in the wrong place please notify immediately of where I
post this in the right spot! [...]

I have a few questions to ask about bibliographic referencing in
Libreoffice: (some of these questions and statements are obvious and
to answer others may not be relevant.
Please reply with reasons and answers for disscussion about the
system [...]:
This statement summarizes it best IMO:
[The] bibliography referencing in Libreoffice, is
vastly minimal but then is complex to use the referencing system and to
follow the direct steps!
In my dealings with a few customers I've helped with LibreOffice, they
have moved to Zotero, a free, open source system to easily gather, share
and use bibliography references. I am not expert with Zotero, but have
explored it to determine how it works and what is needed. One important
problem is you can't reproduce the current sharing/social/public web
part of the service at, but everything else is free, open
source software.

3. compatability does not work between Microsoft Office and Libreoffice
with the usage of both referencing systems from either word or
features are excluded or do not work. (I can ellaborate on these if
to be posted)
What I've observed is that once users decide to go for LibreOffice, they
will want to convert to other free,open source software (like Zotero).
Using both operating systems/applications on either interchangeably
becomes impractical very quickly. Keep in mind it's rather difficult to
influence important changes/bug fixes in non-free, non-open source
software, so it's  a waste of time going that route (in my opinion!). I
am very biaised about this, though, I encourage you to ask more
questions and make your own opinion.

4. Recent versions of Microsoft Office since 2007 have tried to create
uncomplex versions of referencing and bibliographic citations. These
systems work, but are still limited.
OneNote seems very popular. Keep in mind Microsoft is a business and
will do everything it can to make it easy/pleasant/profitable to stay
with Microsoft Office. Such a system won't exist in LibreOffice in the
short or even long term specially when specialized 3rd party
alternatives like Zotero exist and speciall when core functionality in
LibreOffice is not feature-complete/bug-free yet. Someone / some
organization would need to be very motivated and have good resources to
attempt this.

5. LO should create a new referencing system.
See above.

Questions about referencing in LO: Not in any order.

I lack the time to answer more, hopefully someone else can jump in and
help here.


Fabian Rodriguez

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