Re: [tdf-discuss] How developers scare end-users away from filing bugs

On 2/14/12 3:45 AM, Rainer Bielefeld wrote:
> We are talking about
> <https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45247>
>
> Hi Ilyse Kazar,
>
> as you read I'm not a developer, and I do not want to discourage 
> anybody, my only goal is to process the thousands of unconfirmed (not 
> "UNCONFIRMED") as quick as possible. For a better understanding here 
> some short explication why I askd for exactly that information:

Rainer, thank you very much for the additional insights.


For this group, not aimed at Rainer in particular --

To an end-user with limited understanding of the QA process, being 
presented with the nice friendly easy to fill in form on 
https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/bug/ only then to be instructed to 
read a much more complex page about how to file a bug report and to be 
asked to log back in to additionally add screenshots, provide 
localization information, to examine the dozens of settings options and 
try to figure out which ones might be pertinent to the problem ... this 
feels like what is called in English "bait and switch" (i.e., present 
something that looks easy and engaging at the outset, and then after the 
"prey" is "hooked" change the terms of the relationship).

To Rainer:

I did not understand that you were simply pasting in boilerplate from 
somewhere else, I thought you were asking me to provide all that 
information. I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

To all:

I would guess that LO QA would like to have all users, including the 
average every-day end user, submit bugs. Nevertheless, based on Rainer's 
well-reasoned response explaining that bug reports that do not include 
certain elements such as sample docs, screenshots, localization info and 
other things that are not asked for in the public-facing bug report 
form, are developers being done a disservice? I can indeed imagine much 
more time being required of folks doing QA because they must experiment, 
for examples, with all permutations of settings and locales in order to 
try to reproduce a bug.

On the other hand ... if I had been an "average end-user" such as a 
secretary who decided to take some time out of their day to go to 
libreoffice.org, click on "Bug" and fill in the form, and then got a 
notification asking me to provide all kinds of additional info, I would 
(1) not be engaging with you here on this list, and (2) would ignore the 
request because I am on the job and responsible for doing other things 
for my boss. Thus the issue would sit there in the system as NEEDSINFO.

So I can't say I know what the solution is, but there seems to be a real 
disconnect between the form presented to the public when filing a bug 
from the main LO site (at https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/bug/ ) 
and what developers really need as per the wiki that is not linked to at 
all on this page.

<snip>

> And ba the way, if you have a suggestion for a text demanding for 
> exactly that information,  clear and brief, understandable for non 
> native English speakers, but more encouraging (I know, my comments 
> often sound unintendedly rough), I am open minded.

Hmm. I do have some suggestions. Should I post them here or send privately?

kazar

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