Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Font Embedding in ODF (was RE: ANN: ODF 1.2 Candidate OASIS Standard Enters 60-Day Public Review)

Hi.

On 2011-06-27 14:17, Robert Derman wrote:
> Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> > Le Sun, 26 Jun 2011 09:41:07 -0700 (PDT),
> > plino <pedlino@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> >  
> > > Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> > >    
> > > > Now, as for humility, claiming in an assured and definitive way
> > > > that ODF will lose if it
> > > > does not embed fonts is not exactly humble either.
> > > >       
> > > I didn't say that. I said that IF OASIS insists on refusing to embed
> > > fonts in ODF (which is what you also peremptorily affirmed, even
> > > though Dennis Hammilton in the ODF TC says it's not so) it is not the
> > > right file format for LibreOffice.
> > >     
> >
> >
> > Why? Note: I'm not saying it's a bad idea to embed fonts, I'm saying
> > (me, who's also part of that ODF TC) it's very unlikely. I think there
> > will be problems of many kinds, some of them being of legal nature
> > (esp. related to the use and distribution of fonts). But let me ask it
> > again: why should it not be the right file format for LibreOffice?
> > Fonts embedding cannot be the only one feature that will help us break
> > the dominant vendor's monopoly, can it?
> >
> >  
> > > ODF doesn't loose any value as an open universal file format if it
> > > decides not to embed fonts. It just isn't right for an office suite.
> > >
> > > In any case, it's my opinion. It doesn't lack humility.
> > >     
> >
> >
> > Okay... So let's get very practical here. You mentioned the case of
> > Impress presentations, and I think it's fair to say that what you have
> > described is something many of us has faced in the past, with .odp
> > files or .ppt files. Now here are two cases that would advocate for not
> > embedding fonts. What I'm trying to show here is that font embedding is
> > not the magical feature that's going to solve all of our problems, not
> > that embedding fonts is a bad idea in every case.
> > Case A: User Joe wants to use some super-duper fonts (called, font A)
> > for his presentation and embeds fonts within his sales pitch
> > presentation in .odp . Fonts A has been designed by designer Bob, who
> > specifically licensed them for non commercial usage. User Joe is
> > sending his presentation to customer Ike, his boss, Peter, and his
> > colleague, Ed. His presentation embeds fonts that are not eligible for
> > commercial use (per Designer Bob's terms). By using these fonts in his
> > presentation, User Joe has infringed the license 3 times. But it gets
> > worse. Customer Ike sends the presentation to his boss, Mary. 4 times.
> > Mary sends it to her head of accounting for validation. 5 times... And
> > so on. Do you get the point?
> >   
> This reminds me of something I once heard, I think it was on the OOo
> Discuss list, anyway a number of users were proposing a font
> "Blacklist" that would list those fonts with too restrictive
> licensing.  End users would be advised not to purchase, download or
> use any of the fonts on the list.  It would be kind of a
> persona-non-grata of fonts.  The upshot of it was that it was a way of
> saying to font designers/publishers -- "If that's the way you want to
> be with your licensing, then you can keep your darned font!"
This is a problem that practically affects our company. The
practicalities do not change the outcome or licensing considerations,
only the difficulty of using LO and ODF.

We have a number of custom fonts representing control panel displays, we
use these to write operator manuals, we send the manuals to various
people for editing and we send the manuals out for translation (other
language versions). We also use Arial as the standard font.

We find the arial font varies from machine to machine, and the writing
reflows and layout is upset. We need our custom fonts. Our present
solution is to email the odt and attach the fonts to the email, so the
fonts just tag along with the document for the user to install, not
convenient and everyone gets the fonts.

The better solution is to include the fonts required in the odt file
just for LO use (like MS, and 2 previously mentioned word processors).
This also enables more control on use of the licensed fonts, if even
just a big warning "Have you checked your terms of use" and they can't
be saved as system fonts for general use.
steve

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