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On 9 Jun 2011, at 01:47, wrote:

Don Harbison
Program Director, IBM ODF Initiative
Tel. +1-978-399-7018
Mobile: +1-978-761-0116

Simon Phipps <> wrote on 06/08/2011 07:55:02 PM:

From: Simon Phipps <>
Date: 06/08/2011 07:55 PM
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [Libreoffice] Proposal to join 

On 9 Jun 2011, at 00:43, Jim Jagielski wrote:

On Jun 8, 2011, at 6:32 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:

Certainly being an independent, legally established foundation is
critical, isn't it, as compare to one which is "just" a legally
established one? Not saying that TDF isn't at all, but the
'independent' part is important.

Not really hugely important, as long as everything is open to 
scrutiny and beyond the control of any interested party - 
transparency is the key, just like it is at Apache. Any organisation
can be gamed - it's a function of having rules, since "every system 
of rules contains within it the game that plays it and ultimately 
subverts it"[1]. But it will indeed be good when TDF is able to 
complete the bootstrap process so the innuendo can stop.

Agreed... the only reason I mention "independent" is that even
a clearly independent foundation such as the ASF has been alluded
to be in cahoots with IBM/Oracle regarding all this, so I'm sure
that TDF will get the same amount of scrutiny and baseless
claims, and being able to point to their independence will nip
that in the bud.

I'm always amused when Apache is accused of collaborating with any 
corporate entity - it's obviously almost impossible for that happen.
The problem is not collaboration; it's gameability, and all rule-
based and transparent entities eventually suffer from it once they 
are fully understood by those most likely to benefit from doing so. 

Is there something useful to be said here? If so, what is it? 

I'm not sure what you mean by that, honestly (and welcome to the list by the way, perhaps you 
should introduce yourself).  

But you really need to get that mailer of yours sorted out, it keeps top-posting a huge signature 
block each time you reply.


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