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On 10/19/2010 1:16 AM, James Wilde wrote:
On Oct 19, 2010, at 00:27 , Barbara Duprey wrote:

Does this mean you're a (the?) moderator for this list? Not having that Delivered-To header 
definitely does complicate things! I'm amazed that anybody is posting here unsubscribed at this 
point, I'd expect the early users here to have more awareness of the value of subscribing.

Don't know what the other mods have for experience of this list, but my own is that most of the 
unsubscribed posters are subscribed under another name and just happen to send a message from one 
of their unsubscribed email addresses.

OK, now it makes more sense!

Even if the Reply=To were modified, wouldn't the inclusion of the OP on the messages fall apart as 
soon as somebody didn't use Reply All? I, for one, would have to be seriously retrained! I still 
feel that the most profitable approach is referring the OP to an archive with Reply capability, but 
this is a subject for more discussion elsewhere. Until/unless we get a wiki up, feel free to use my 
e-mail; I'll try to include everybody who lets me know they're interested.
Another good reason to prioritise down the mailing list in favour of a forum.


I don't have anything against forums (though I hope we can avoid having two top-level ones, as for OOo, and careful planning is needed in determining the subforums). The main difference, which is a positive for some and a negative for others, is that mailing lists are passive (people get mail when it's posted) and forums/newsgroups require action to see messages. I've seen another of your posts where you mentioned your positive experience with forums and non-techie users (where you gave me way too much credit as a user helper!), and that's great. I also have no difficulty with describing both mechanisms at the user's first point of contact, so they can choose the style that best fits them. I just want to maintain good support of mailing lists for those who like them better. I do, myself, which may be why I see the balance between the two mechanisms differently than you.

In that regard, the modification of the Reply-To is, I think, more likely to give a false sense of security than to fix the problem of people not getting responses they would benefit from. However, there's an approach I hope we can agree on, which is having the moderator send an unsubscribed OP a message that, among other things, tells them how to use a page like the one Drew has developed ( to follow their threads on nabble without having to subscribe. That will give the users a full range of choices for how they want to interact, and they won't miss the responses. (If they do, it's not our fault!) The LibO lists put more on the moderator, because nobody else knows whether the OP is subscribed -- but that's a good thing for eliminating all the meta-discussions that derive from the OOo Delivered-To technique, I wouldn't want to see it changed. (I'm willing to be a moderator myself, BTW.) If we had a similar page for OOo, it would make an enormous difference there, as well.

I also think there are possibilities in creating sublists in parallel with the subforums; the main thing I'm concerned about here is getting into lots of redirection from the "beginning" list/forum to the subs, unless it's really necessary because the question drives too deep for appropriate handling at a generalist's level. (Sort of like the Level 1/ Level 2/ Level 3 support structure used by most help desks I've known about.)

Developing the kind of structure and the related message I'm talking about here, and that has been recommended by others, will take significant collaboration. I'm trying to learn about wikis so I can host and manage one on this subject, but I'd gladly defer to somebody else who can put one up on the TDF site where it really belongs. Any takers?

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