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RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness


Dennis,

Not wanting to feed a big fat troll(the OOXML topic) I srill would like to point out that un terms 
of IPR ODF has a very clean and simple RF basis (royalty free) while OOXML is much more unclear on 
that point although it appeaes you don't have to pay fees for implementing what's covered in the 
ISO standard.

Best,

Charles
(who's a former director of the OASIS consortium)


"Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamilton@acm.org> a écrit :

To be clear, the OOXML File Format is the subject of an International
Standard, the same way that ODF is an International Standard.  (OOXML
started off in ECMA, ODF started off in OASIS.  Both are ISO
Standards.)

So the specifications are open and freely available.  You can download
them
for free.

In addition, Microsoft has provided its Open Specification Promise and
other
declarations so that implementations of consumers and producers of the
format are not subject to any patent claims from Microsoft and it is
not
necessary to obtain a license.  Sun did something similar for ODF.

The Microsoft Office *implementation* is not open source.  Likewise,
the
built-in support of ODF in Microsoft Office is not open source.  The
standards for the formats are open.  Open-source implementations are
not
required.

Support for OOXML in products like LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice,
and in
the Apache POI Project, to name three, is open source -- they are open
source projects and the source code is available under open source
licenses.
Just as support for ODF in LibO, AOO, and the ODF Toolkit is with
open-source code.

-----Original Message-----
From: lj [mailto:ljeloudev@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 00:08
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Fwd: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: lj <ljeloudev@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness
To: "<dennis.hamilton@acm.org>" <dennis.hamilton@acm.org>


Thank you for the explanation of OOXML.
But I am still confused.
To Clear Things Up I need to know if the OOXML File Format, is open
sourced... or proprietary?
(This was probably mentioned before...)
Then I would definitely have a clearer understanding.
Thanks,
LJ


On 08/02/2013, at 5:49 PM, "Dennis E. Hamilton"
<dennis.hamilton@acm.org>
wrote:

Yes there is an International Standard for OOXML.  I *suspect* that
the
provision of two-different Save As ... cases is (1) for the
Transitional
Standard OOXML which is the closest to what is acceptable by all
Microsoft
Office applications that accept .docx, .xlsx, and .pptx, and (2) for
Strict
Standard OOXML that is accepted only by Office 2010 and 2013 and can
be
produced by 2013.  I have no idea how close the alignment of
LibreOffice
is
to those two flavors of Standard OOXML, which is a different
question.
There are those who think that Transitional is somehow not truly
OOXML,
but
both are specified in the International Standard.  Microsoft Office
also
takes advantage of the extension mechanism, MCE, that is provided in
the
International Standard.  I don't know how that sorts out in the
interoperability between LibreOffice and Microsoft Office using
OOXML.

The Wikipedia article is not bad.  However, there has been
significant
maintenance of IS 29500:2008 and that has impacted the original
separation
of Transitional and Strict by making them syntactically separate
while
having considerable overlap in terms of function and semantics.  The
current
edition of the International Standard for OOXML is IS 29500:2012. 
There
is
also an in-process amendment.

- Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: lj [mailto:ljeloudev@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 15:38
To: Simon Phipps
Cc: Jonathan Aquilina; Boudi van Vlijmen;
discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

Isn't there a standard Office Open XML Document Format?
What is the difference between office open xml and standard microsoft
docx
formats in LibreOffice and why does LibreOffice include both?
is there also a link where I can read about this... the only think I
have
found useful is what open xml is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML






On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Simon Phipps <simon@webmink.com>
wrote:

I don't know anyone who uses Office so I'm afraid I can't answer.
That's
why I send PDFs - everyone can open those and see the same document.

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Jonathan Aquilina
<eagles051387@gmail.com
wrote:

My question though Simon is how well is ODF formatting preserved
when
opening up ODF formats in office 2010 and above on windows.

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Phipps [mailto:simon@webmink.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 4:11 PM
To: Boudi van Vlijmen
Cc: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

I generally advise people to send me PDFs rather than editable
documents
unless there's a real need for me to edit them. That way there's no
risk
anyone will get locked-in to anything :-)

If I *do* need to be able to edit I request Hybrid PDF files, which
are
PDFs
with the original ODF source embedded. They are easy to make with
LibreOffice and I've created a tutorial here:
http://webmink.com/2012/05/07/making-hybrid-pdfs/

S.

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Boudi van Vlijmen
<boudi@vanvlijmen.nl>wrote:

Friends,

Every email I send has the footer as in this one.

The purpose is to achieve;

  1. Vendor-lock-in awarness
  2. Hook in on the society learning curve status.

The message is:
ODT in place of DOC/DOCX,
ODS in place of XLS/XLSX,
ODP in place of PPT/PPTX.

ODF is one bridge to far. People think in DOC, XLS and PPT. To get
them away from that we should start from there. Not with a high
level
ODF concept!

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,
Boudi van Vlijmen <http://www.vanvlijmen.nl>

 *Werk documenten*
ODT, gDoc, DOC, DOCX
ODS, gSheet, XLS, XLSX
en ODP, gSlides, PPT, PPTX
*Distributie en Archivering*
PDF/A <http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/A>


 [image: Inline image 1]
[image: Inline image 1]
 *Open standards or Open Wallets that is the question! Waak over
uw
onafhankelijkheid!
*
http://forumstandaardisatie.nl/
Beleidsquote "Rijksdiensten moeten vanaf april 2008 ODF
ondersteunen.
Mede-overheden en overige instellingen volgen uiterlijk december
2008.
ODF = .odt voor tekst, .ods voor spreadsheets, .odp voor
presentaties"
Vendor-lock
safe formats <http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in>
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument
**

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