Date: prev next · Thread: first prev next last

2013 Archives by date, by thread · List index

RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

"Charles-H. Schulz" <charles.schulz -AT- documentfoundation.org>
Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:04:12 +0100

Dennis,

Not wanting to feed a big fat troll(the OOXML topic) I srill would like to point out that un terms 
of IPR ODF has a very clean and simple RF basis (royalty free) while OOXML is much more unclear on 
that point although it appeaes you don't have to pay fees for implementing what's covered in the 
ISO standard.

Best,

Charles
(who's a former director of the OASIS consortium)


"Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamilton@acm.org> a écrit :

To be clear, the OOXML File Format is the subject of an International
Standard, the same way that ODF is an International Standard.  (OOXML
started off in ECMA, ODF started off in OASIS.  Both are ISO
Standards.)

So the specifications are open and freely available.  You can download
them
for free.

In addition, Microsoft has provided its Open Specification Promise and
other
declarations so that implementations of consumers and producers of the
format are not subject to any patent claims from Microsoft and it is
not
necessary to obtain a license.  Sun did something similar for ODF.

The Microsoft Office *implementation* is not open source.  Likewise,
the
built-in support of ODF in Microsoft Office is not open source.  The
standards for the formats are open.  Open-source implementations are
not
required.

Support for OOXML in products like LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice,
and in
the Apache POI Project, to name three, is open source -- they are open
source projects and the source code is available under open source
licenses.
Just as support for ODF in LibO, AOO, and the ODF Toolkit is with
open-source code.

-----Original Message-----
From: lj [mailto:ljeloudev@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 00:08
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Fwd: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: lj <ljeloudev@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness
To: "<dennis.hamilton@acm.org>" <dennis.hamilton@acm.org>


Thank you for the explanation of OOXML.
But I am still confused.
To Clear Things Up I need to know if the OOXML File Format, is open
sourced... or proprietary?
(This was probably mentioned before...)
Then I would definitely have a clearer understanding.
Thanks,
LJ


On 08/02/2013, at 5:49 PM, "Dennis E. Hamilton"
<dennis.hamilton@acm.org>
wrote:

Yes there is an International Standard for OOXML.  I *suspect* that

the

provision of two-different Save As ... cases is (1) for the

Transitional

Standard OOXML which is the closest to what is acceptable by all

Microsoft

Office applications that accept .docx, .xlsx, and .pptx, and (2) for

Strict

Standard OOXML that is accepted only by Office 2010 and 2013 and can

be

produced by 2013.  I have no idea how close the alignment of

LibreOffice
is

to those two flavors of Standard OOXML, which is a different

question.

There are those who think that Transitional is somehow not truly

OOXML,
but

both are specified in the International Standard.  Microsoft Office

also

takes advantage of the extension mechanism, MCE, that is provided in

the

International Standard.  I don't know how that sorts out in the
interoperability between LibreOffice and Microsoft Office using

OOXML.


The Wikipedia article is not bad.  However, there has been

significant

maintenance of IS 29500:2008 and that has impacted the original

separation

of Transitional and Strict by making them syntactically separate

while

having considerable overlap in terms of function and semantics.  The

current

edition of the International Standard for OOXML is IS 29500:2012.

There
is

also an in-process amendment.

- Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: lj [mailto:ljeloudev@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 15:38
To: Simon Phipps
Cc: Jonathan Aquilina; Boudi van Vlijmen;

discuss@documentfoundation.org

Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

Isn't there a standard Office Open XML Document Format?
What is the difference between office open xml and standard microsoft

docx

formats in LibreOffice and why does LibreOffice include both?
is there also a link where I can read about this... the only think I

have

found useful is what open xml is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML






On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Simon Phipps <simon@webmink.com>

wrote:

I don't know anyone who uses Office so I'm afraid I can't answer.

That's

why I send PDFs - everyone can open those and see the same document.

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Jonathan Aquilina

<eagles051387@gmail.com

wrote:

My question though Simon is how well is ODF formatting preserved

when

opening up ODF formats in office 2010 and above on windows.

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Phipps [mailto:simon@webmink.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 4:11 PM
To: Boudi van Vlijmen
Cc: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

I generally advise people to send me PDFs rather than editable

documents

unless there's a real need for me to edit them. That way there's no

risk

anyone will get locked-in to anything :-)

If I *do* need to be able to edit I request Hybrid PDF files, which

are

PDFs
with the original ODF source embedded. They are easy to make with
LibreOffice and I've created a tutorial here:
http://webmink.com/2012/05/07/making-hybrid-pdfs/

S.

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Boudi van Vlijmen
<boudi@vanvlijmen.nl>wrote:

Friends,

Every email I send has the footer as in this one.

The purpose is to achieve;

  1. Vendor-lock-in awarness
  2. Hook in on the society learning curve status.

The message is:
ODT in place of DOC/DOCX,
ODS in place of XLS/XLSX,
ODP in place of PPT/PPTX.

ODF is one bridge to far. People think in DOC, XLS and PPT. To get
them away from that we should start from there. Not with a high

level

ODF concept!

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,
Boudi van Vlijmen <http://www.vanvlijmen.nl>

 *Werk documenten*
ODT, gDoc, DOC, DOCX
ODS, gSheet, XLS, XLSX
en ODP, gSlides, PPT, PPTX
*Distributie en Archivering*
PDF/A <http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/A>


 [image: Inline image 1]
[image: Inline image 1]
 *Open standards or Open Wallets that is the question! Waak over

uw

onafhankelijkheid!
*
http://forumstandaardisatie.nl/
Beleidsquote "Rijksdiensten moeten vanaf april 2008 ODF

ondersteunen.

Mede-overheden en overige instellingen volgen uiterlijk december

2008.

ODF = .odt voor tekst, .ods voor spreadsheets, .odp voor

presentaties"

Vendor-lock
safe formats <http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in>
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument
**


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to

discuss+help@documentfoundation.org

Problems?

http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/

Posting guidelines + more:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette

List archive:

http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/

All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot

be

deleted


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2897 / Virus Database: 2639/6087 - Release Date:

02/07/13


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2897 / Virus Database: 2639/6087 - Release Date:

02/07/13



--
*Simon Phipps*  http://webmink.com
*Meshed Insights & Knowledge *
*Office:* +1 (415) 683-7660 *or* +44 (238) 098 7027
*Mobile*:  +44 774 776 2816*
*

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to

discuss+help@documentfoundation.org

Problems?

http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/

Posting guidelines + more:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette

List archive:

http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/

All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot

be

deleted


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to

discuss+help@documentfoundation.org

Problems?
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette

List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot

be

deleted


-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+help@documentfoundation.org
Problems?
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
deleted


-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+help@documentfoundation.org
Problems?
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
deleted


-- 
Envoyé de mon téléphone avec Kaiten Mail. Excusez la brièveté.
-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+help@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Context

Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness (continued)
- Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Simon Phipps
  - RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Jonathan Aquilina
    - RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Dennis E. Hamilton
    - Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Simon Phipps
      - Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · lj
        
        RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Jonathan Aquilina
        
        RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Dennis E. Hamilton
        
        (message not available)
        
        Fwd: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · lj
        RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Dennis E. Hamilton
        RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Charles-H. Schulz
  - RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Dennis E. Hamilton
    - RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Jonathan Aquilina
      - Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Jean Weber
        
        RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Jonathan Aquilina
        
        Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Jean Weber
        
        RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · Jonathan Aquilina
  - Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness · e-letter

Privacy Policy | Impressum (Legal Info) | Copyright information: Unless otherwise specified, all text and images on this website are licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License. This does not include the source code of LibreOffice, which is licensed under the Mozilla Public License (MPLv2). "LibreOffice" and "The Document Foundation" are registered trademarks of their corresponding registered owners or are in actual use as trademarks in one or more countries. Their respective logos and icons are also subject to international copyright laws. Use thereof is explained in our trademark policy.