Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: user forums ?

On Thu, 2011-11-03 at 16:17 +0100, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
> Hi *,
>
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Florian Effenberger
> <floeff@documentfoundation.org> wrote:
> > Ken Springer wrote on 2011-11-02 22:48:
> > > If you prefer your help system to be a forum, that's available through
> > > the Nabble interface and Gmane.
> >
> > sadly, Nabble is not seen as forum at all.
>
> Yes, because it is none.

Right - as it is currently configured. 

> > I don't know why, but many -
> > especially novice - users have complained and do not use Nabble.
>
> You cannot move threads to other topics, you cannot edit messages
> afterwards, you cannot delete posts, you cannot mark posts as sticky
> or "resolved", etc.

This type of behavior is possible using the service features, BUT, this
then renders a database that is not tied in structure to the underling
mail archive - I'm not saying that Nabble's forum features would be a
suitable platform, or not, I think there are other concerns, most of
which would be there with any third party service provider IMO. 

Perhaps as a side note - when I setup the initial Nabble link I was not
expecting it to wind up so tightly coupled with the main website, I just
saw it as a ancillary service that could be setup with a minimum of fuss
that would offer some value to part of the user base, while not adding
(much) overhead to the real infrastructure teams workload.

> All those features are considerably useful when used properly, but
> from my experience too many clueless people join forums, and the same
> old questions get posted over and over again, people don't make use of
> those additional features and in the end it is used as a mailinglist
> with reduced functionality.
>
> If LO is going to have an own forum, then there shall be a bunch of
> moderators that are to ensure to keep the different topics organized,
> ensure that a certain level of posting discipline is respected, make
> sure that the repeated questions or spam-posts to just put an older
> topic further up the list are kept to a minimum. Forum-Sheriffs if you
> want to use a loaded term.
>
> This is where I see the biggest problem. You need to have a big number
> of dedicated people who clean up the mess that the mass of regular
> users create to keep a forum usable. And I'm not sure that a new forum
> will have those people.

Good points for sure. 

> In former times, when you had a technical problem, you would use your
> search-engine of choice and after browsing through 5 or 6 links, you
> would get your answer.
> Nowadays, you get thousands of hits, many to forums where the same
> question is posted to a sh*tload of different forums, full of "I have
> the same problem" style posts but with no answer. Or the answer is
> "solved by using different hardware/software" instead. And the best of
> all are those are the "fixed the problem, topic can be closed" style
> posts (don't even bother to tell others how you fixed that problem).
> And of course then there is the forum-post signature spam when looking
> for info regarding a specific hardware or similar, people put a big
> list of stuff they once owned to all of their posts, rendering any
> search useless as all irrelevant posts are returned just because the
> term appears in the signature in every post/thread the user does post.
>
> My fear is that the same will happen to any newly created Forum when
> there is already a big userbase.

Ok, I understand that and though IMO it is  a problem with any attempt
to deliver services - it's less about the tools and more about the
execution.


> And as you might have noticed, I'm not a big fan of forums. 

A web forum is not a panacea - it is one tool, one access point if you
will. 

This thread has touched on a number of tools - the real question to be
asked is I think - what or which of those tools make sense to include in
the mix of options available for support.

> I'm
> actually only using one forum, one that one is tightly scoped.
> And my aversion against forums is not the technology, but rather what
> the people make of it. As long as it has a sane
> mail-notification/subscription system and doesn't force me to visit a
> webpage and hunt for replies myself, I would be fine.
>
> Replying to topics via mail would be a great plus though. - But I am
> not aware of any of the big forum-software that would support this.

Actually there are a number of solutions for different web forum
platforms, they have limitations - but they are there.

Finally, just a thought - I think it is a mistake to look at human
resources vs support options as a net sum game. Each different platform
is likely to appeal to somewhat different groups of individuals and
though there needs to be some folks that look after things as a whole,
or at least with a view beyond just one service. 

In other words recruiting (meeting the needs of) new volunteers
(responders) is, by definition IMO, part of running a well functioning
support service, be it a BBS style web forum, a Q+A style service or a
end user mailing list.

Best wishes,

//drew


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