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On 2011-06-25, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

Le 2011-06-24 13:13, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :

So, let me state and restate this : ODF will not embed fonts in the
1.2, 1.3, nor in the future, because the format is not meant to focus on
faithful layout rendering. Instead, PDF is meant that. ODF focuses on
office document exchanges.

4. It is incorrect to presume that Font Embedding will not be in ODF 1.3
or any other.  While font embedding did not make the feature cut in the
prioritization for ODF 1.2, that does not mean it can't be resurrected.
It is early days for ODF 1.3, which is scheduled to take a two-year
development process.
    What is *missing* is a serious proposal that deals with the
complexities, borrows from some already-worked-out approach in other
software, and is brought forth at the ODF TC in an unencumbered form.
Someone has to do the heavy lifting.
I think this conversation needs to be made more concrete.

The inclusion of font embedding into the ODF 1.x specification is not
the issue.

The issue is, who has it be such an imperative that they are willing
to have and document an implementation-specific solution well enough
that others can interoperate with it.  Then, or concurrently, it can
be rolled into the ODF specification work as the basis for an
independently-implementable, interoperable feature of ODF.

The problem is that the research I've been doing about this subject has
been leading me to the position that LibO/OOo is not going to implement
it because it must be implemented in ODF, and because ODF won't support

So, after reading your messages, there are two issues:

1. There's a misunderstanding of the position held by the ODF TC (or
   maybe it was some decision taken long ago of which you don't know?),

2. this sounds like a chicken and egg problem, LibO/OOo will only
   implement embedding if it gets in ODF, and it will only get in ODF if
   there's a working implementation. I've always held the opinion the
   chicken must have come first, because "egg" is shorthand for
   "[chicken] egg". But I doubt this helps here.

The ODF TC does not implement anything.  And it is a waste of the
volunteer efforts of the ODF TC participants to specify features that
no one implements or that are not practically implementable or for
which there are already good-enough solutions that can be adapted.
There's a hand-and-glove partnership required for a feature as
substantial as font embedding.

Makes sense.

It is definitely the case that the ODF specification does
not specify the rendering and presentation of documents.  But that
doesn't exclude font embedding.  After all, there are already
significant provisions for fonts in ODF, they just don't encompass
embedding font files.

I see font embedding as a way to make interoperation easier, and not to
achieve faithful representation. I think a major goal is to have ODF
being used on several platforms, and available fonts differ from
platform to platform. OTOH I guess LibO can (and probably already does?)
bundle some fonts with it, so that the default fonts are available on
every install of LibO (but this still excludes other ODF-compatible

Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)

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