Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Font Embedding in ODF

On 2011-06-25, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

> > Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> >
> > > Le 2011-06-24 13:13, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :
> > >
> > > > So, let me state and restate this : ODF will not embed fonts in the
> > > > 1.2, 1.3, nor in the future, because the format is not meant to focus on
> > > > faithful layout rendering. Instead, PDF is meant that. ODF focuses on
> > > > office document exchanges.
> > >
> > > 4. It is incorrect to presume that Font Embedding will not be in ODF 1.3
> > > or any other.  While font embedding did not make the feature cut in the
> > > prioritization for ODF 1.2, that does not mean it can't be resurrected.
> > > It is early days for ODF 1.3, which is scheduled to take a two-year
> > > development process.
> > >     What is *missing* is a serious proposal that deals with the
> > > complexities, borrows from some already-worked-out approach in other
> > > software, and is brought forth at the ODF TC in an unencumbered form.
> > > Someone has to do the heavy lifting.
[...]
> I think this conversation needs to be made more concrete.
>
> The inclusion of font embedding into the ODF 1.x specification is not
> the issue.
>
> The issue is, who has it be such an imperative that they are willing
> to have and document an implementation-specific solution well enough
> that others can interoperate with it.  Then, or concurrently, it can
> be rolled into the ODF specification work as the basis for an
> independently-implementable, interoperable feature of ODF.

The problem is that the research I've been doing about this subject has
been leading me to the position that LibO/OOo is not going to implement
it because it must be implemented in ODF, and because ODF won't support
that.

So, after reading your messages, there are two issues:

1. There's a misunderstanding of the position held by the ODF TC (or
   maybe it was some decision taken long ago of which you don't know?),
   and

2. this sounds like a chicken and egg problem, LibO/OOo will only
   implement embedding if it gets in ODF, and it will only get in ODF if
   there's a working implementation. I've always held the opinion the
   chicken must have come first, because "egg" is shorthand for
   "[chicken] egg". But I doubt this helps here.


> The ODF TC does not implement anything.  And it is a waste of the
> volunteer efforts of the ODF TC participants to specify features that
> no one implements or that are not practically implementable or for
> which there are already good-enough solutions that can be adapted.
> There's a hand-and-glove partnership required for a feature as
> substantial as font embedding.

Makes sense.

[...]
> It is definitely the case that the ODF specification does
> not specify the rendering and presentation of documents.  But that
> doesn't exclude font embedding.  After all, there are already
> significant provisions for fonts in ODF, they just don't encompass
> embedding font files.

I see font embedding as a way to make interoperation easier, and not to
achieve faithful representation. I think a major goal is to have ODF
being used on several platforms, and available fonts differ from
platform to platform. OTOH I guess LibO can (and probably already does?)
bundle some fonts with it, so that the default fonts are available on
every install of LibO (but this still excludes other ODF-compatible
applications).

-- 
Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)
gopher://sdf-eu.org/1/users/njsg

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