RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Font Embedding in ODF (was RE: ANN: ODF 1.2 Candidate OASIS Standard Enters 60-Day Public Review)

The reason for the periodic Committee Drafts is to have reasonably-stable feature specifications 
that implementers can start on and confirm the specification of before we do the work to produce 
the final stable specification (a Committee Specification) that then goes forward as a Candidate 
OASIS Standard and then OASIS Standard.  

I think this conversation needs to be made more concrete.

The inclusion of font embedding into the ODF 1.x specification is not the issue.

The issue is, who has it be such an imperative that they are willing to have and document an 
implementation-specific solution well enough that others can interoperate with it.  Then, or 
concurrently, it can be rolled into the ODF specification work as the basis for an 
independently-implementable, interoperable feature of ODF.  

The ODF TC does not implement anything.  And it is a waste of the volunteer efforts of the ODF TC 
participants to specify features that no one implements or that are not practically implementable 
or for which there are already good-enough solutions that can be adapted.  There's a hand-and-glove 
partnership required for a feature as substantial as font embedding.

So far, I have not heard any offers.

 - Dennis 

PS: Since August 2008, when I became a member of the ODF TC, I don't recall any conclusion that 
font embedding is out of scope for the OpenDocument Format. I don't know what such an assertion 
might be based on.  It is definitely the case that the ODF specification does not specify the 
rendering and presentation of documents.  But that doesn't exclude font embedding.  After all, 
there are already significant provisions for fonts in ODF, they just don't encompass embedding font 
files. 

-----Original Message-----
From: plino [mailto:pedlino@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 01:26
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: [tdf-discuss] Re: Font Embedding in ODF (was RE: ANN: ODF 1.2 Candidate OASIS Standard 
Enters 60-Day Public Review)


Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>  4. It is incorrect to presume that Font Embedding will not be in ODF 1.3
> or any other.  While font embedding did not make the feature cut in the
> prioritization for ODF 1.2, that does not mean it can't be resurrected. 
> It is early days for ODF 1.3, which is scheduled to take a two-year
> development process.
>     What is *missing* is a serious proposal that deals with the
> complexities, borrows from some already-worked-out approach in other
> software, and is brought forth at the ODF TC in an unencumbered form. 
> Someone has to do the heavy lifting.  
>     You can also respond to the public review, although something concrete
> that can be used in a constructive manner would be particularly welcome. 
> The ODF TC *has* to address every Public Review comment, although that
> doesn't mean we will do anything about it.  Good catches will probably be
> saved up for an Errata or lead to action in ODF 1.3.



> Le 2011-06-24 13:13, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :
>
> > So, let me state and restate this : ODF will not embed fonts in the
> > 1.2, 1.3, nor in the future, because the format is not meant to focus on
> > faithful layout rendering. Instead, PDF is meant that. ODF focuses on
> > office document exchanges.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Charles.

Even if font embedding is included in ODF 1.3 (which is unlikely according
to Charles' statement) that will only happen in 2 years time. 

I think TDF and LO are betting on the wrong horse. It's not only going to
start the race much later but also there seems to be no guarantee that it
will run faster or better (if Charles' statement is correct they aren't even
on the same race because their goals are different)

In any case, if LibreOffice's goal is to be a suite that stands behind the
ODF format then it should review what it promises. If it can't embed fonts,
it can never be a replacement for MS Office.

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