[tdf-discuss] Re: Request: Installation Instructions

Le 2010-11-25 18:54, Robert Holtzman a écrit :

> One of the best ways to help them out would be to (gently, if that makes
> you feel better) instruct them that it is customary to do a modicum of
> research and try what's found before posting a question to a list. Also,
> the post should include the standard information, s/w version, OS, etc.
> If you have been participating in mail lists for very long, I'm
> surprised you don't recommend this yourself.

This usually happens as a normal course of discussion with people who 
need help. The initial contact may not have enough information and we 
usually as for more. This is pretty standard. I believe it is asking too 
much from a new user to expect this knowledge prior to posting. 
Otherwise, if we had that attitude, we would constantly be berating 
these people and making them feel like our help list is not really helpful.


> This might be true if the contributors to the list were paid employees
> or if the posters were paying for help. In that case pandering to lazy
> users with an infuriating sense of entitlement might be excused because
> one does not piss off a paying customer. The truth is, however, that the
> contributors are unpaid volunteers who hang here from altruistic
> motives and as such are entitled to the respect of not having their time
> wasted trying to guess the problem from incomplete questions.

How can you be altruistic and still feel like you are entitled to 
respect from others? These seem like opposing concepts. If you are 
altruistic, then you don't care if people do not give you your 
"entitled" respect. You actually have to earn respect. People do not owe 
you respect. Otherwise, IMO, this would not make you a good candidate 
for a help list.

> This may have little to do with installation instructions but it
> addresses the flavor I'm getting from some of the messages that *all*
> users should be catered to and the clueless ones not be guided into the
> right way to ask questions but be tolerated and spoon fed. I have
> nothing against clueless users. That's how everyone starts out but, I
> remember being guided (sometimes not so gently) in how to ask questions.
> I'm not advocating *all* noobs become proficient sysadmins but running a
> few simple searches and trying a few things is a far cry from that.

So if you were guided "sometimes not so gently" when you started off 
this makes it right to continue with this technique? Remember, that 
people are here for help and not to be judged. The just want help. 
Again, there are simply too many unknown variables that may make a 
person understand "accepted guidelines" for help lists. A helping and 
friendly help list always wins over a condescending and patronising help 
list.

> As far as I'm concerned there is too much of what I call the servant
> mentality on this list. I don't find nearly as much on any of the other
> lists I'm involved with, including the ubuntu-users and firefox-support
> lists which get their share of newly minted users who barely know how to
> turn their computer on.

Unfortunately, a help list/desk by definition are exactly that a service 
(from where the word "servant" comes from) to people who need help. If 
serving people in need frustrates particular people, then they should 
not be on the help list.

Marc


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