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Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5


Interesting!
I also submit a proposal about ODF and HTML5(
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12957), but no positive
response...


2011/10/4 Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamilton@acm.org>

My apologies for the heavy-duty cross-posting.  It might be good to pick a
single public list and a subject header and converge there.

Q: WHERE IS THE PROPOSAL?

This started as a simple e-mail list question by Jaime R. Garza on the
[tdf-discuss] list:
<http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07698.html>.

There is no proposal in the sense of some technical submission to adapt ODF
for this purpose.  You are pretty much seeing the extent of the discussion
so far.  The proposal is a paragraph and concept being echoed around these
lists now.

Q: WHERE TO BECOME INVOLVED IN ODF IN HTML5?

There are probably two ways to be involved.

First, development of a proof-of-concept and working [reference]
implementation is valuable.

Secondly, the development of necessary specifications, perhaps jointly
between the OASIS ODF TC and the W3C, might be required.

Also, one needs to differentiate between making some sort of
OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice deliverable that works in HTML5 and a worked
extension of HTML5 that somehow ties into the ODF Format.

It might not even make technical sense to "make ODF part of HTML5," and
that has to be resolved also.

Q: WHAT ABOUT OASIS (and what does Rob Weir have to say about this)?

Rob is on vacation this week.  I know he and others involved on the OASIS
TCs are interested in this topic.

A related topic (defining HTML5 presentation of ODF documents) was raised
at the OASIS ODF Interoperability and Conformance (OIC TC) on their
2011-09-07 teleconference call:
<http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic/201109/msg00009.html>.  It came
under section 3.2.3 Profiles.  The discussion is of a Web Profile for ODF.
 That is not an insignificant effort.

Q: WHAT ARE THE TECHNICAL CHALLENGES?

  ODF has no rendering model and certainly not an
interactive-presentation/-editing model.  None.  Obviously,
OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice do, but those is not to be found in the ODF
specification.

There are an insignificant number of [X]HTML-isms in the ODF
specifications.  XLINK is used, for example.

There is no specified mapping to [X]HTML.  If there were, the import/export
of [X]HTML in various implementations of ODF-bases software would presumable
work better.  That would be the potential subject matter of a Web Profile
though.

There is no standardized ODF DOM (and API) nor a mapping of ODF into an
HTML[5] DOM.  Somehow, to make macros and applets work inside ODF, something
like this is required as well, although having it fit HTML5 as well might be
a confusion of abstraction levels.  (The integration of macros and applets
that access the interior structure and external presentation of an ODF
document is implementation-defined in ODF 1.2.)

Q: WHERE CAN TECHNICAL DEVELOPMENT HAPPEN?

The ODF Toolkit project offers some DOM implementations, but they are not
part of ODF itself.

The ODF Toolkit project is currently being moved to Apache though.  That
project is currently quite Java-centric.  It might be interesting to include
that effort in this conversation, however.

If a public reference implementation were to be developed, I believe it is
desirable to have it be Apache licensed, wherever development were to occur.
 The possibility of a new podling at Apache specifically for this effort
should not be overlooked.

That is the only political part that I see to these challenges, apart from
developers, including in private projects, wanting to do it themselves.



-----Original Message-----
From: Jaime R. Garza [mailto:garzaj@gmail.com]
<http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07708.html>
<
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3cCAJGN0paeBoKS7HTqpc0waW_qRJgcxEZr-rk+63MMBuBsCe-Xxg@mail.gmail.com%3e


Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 03:29
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

Do you have any contacts, links, infos about the proposal and status? I
would really like to get involved!

I think the first step is to integrate ODF into HTML5 as read only, editing
could come later. But this is more political than technical.

Cheers!

Jaime

On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:07, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com> wrote:
< http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07705.html>
<
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3cCAOap24+y0rFCOA78YFHTLMURQ5LO4OJ7aaLyi3HP0rtFm-2EOw@mail.gmail.com%3e


There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official
extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I
don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in
progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and
probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be
to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with
this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in
OO/LibO.
--
Ian
[ ... ]




-- 
-Devin

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