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All right, let's put a stake through the heart of this puppy.

I just created three documents.  One is pretty large so I put them at Windows SkyDrive:

 1. A Microsoft Word 2010 1-page document with a small image and completely using the Linux 
Biolinum G font, a GPL-ed font that came along with LibreOffice 3.3.2, the one I use for ODF 
production work.  The document is almost 4 MB because I asked Word to embed every font (it included 
9, including the Biolinum G).  
  This is the Word document whose name begins with Fonts-2011-06-25-18100-..

 2. An OpenOffice Text document produced from the Word document. It has no fonts and it is quite 
small.  If you open it in LibreOffice 3.x, you may encounter a complaint that the file is 
corrupted.  If so, let LibreOffice correct the document and it should be fine.  (There is some 
breakage between some ODF 1.1 producers and some ODF 1.2 (anticipatory) consumers and we need to 
sort that out.

 3. A PDF. It doesn't seem to have the fonts either.  Apparently the export didn't conclude that 
any were needed.  I gave it permission to export the ones it could.  Alternatively, it might have 
exported just what was needed. I can't tell.

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of Charles-H. Schulz
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 08:33
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Font Embedding in ODF (was RE: ANN: ODF 1.2 Candidate OASIS Standard 
Enters 60-Day Public Review)

Le Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:01:26 -0700 (PDT),
plino <> a écrit :

Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

No it doesn't. 

Of course it does.  Maybe you don't use it or don't know how to do
it. But don't say it doesn't.

So are you saying your word documents embed fonts on a daily basis?
I've never seen any similar documents. You get the impression of that
-maybe- because on a windows to windows environment everybody uses
fonts that are already available on the system. Of course, ODF (and
others) do keep the reference of the font name and if I have the same
font on my system it will try to reuse the same font. But just for
reference: except for specific cases: office document formats including
MSOffice DON'T include fonts. PDF does (there are less used formats)
and that's what it's know for.

Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

But I think we're also missing the point if -let's say
we were to design a brand new office file format that embeds or does
not embed fonts- why should anyone be using it? Choosing a format
that's not the dominant format is already a reasoned choice,
oftentimes an act of departure from the dominant player, and
sometimes a political act. 

I think you are missing the point: it's not simply a matter of the
embedded fonts. If the brand new file format that you are creating
wants to attract users it can never have less features than the one
it wants to replace. Or at least it can not miss critical features.

Network effect. Do you have any idea how many superior formats have
been created but that never got adopted?

Even if people want to switch for "political" reasons, I'm sure they
don't want their work crippled...

They don't, that's true. But don't mix the various purposes of formats.


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