Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Font Embedding in ODF (was RE: ANN: ODF 1.2 ...)

Hi Dennis.

On 26/06/11 13:53, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> All right, let's put a stake through the heart of this puppy.
>
> I just created three documents.  One is pretty large so I put them at Windows SkyDrive:
> <https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=33894f6489994ba7&resid=33894F6489994BA7!371>
>
>
>  1. A Microsoft Word 2010 1-page document with a small image and completely using the Linux 
> Biolinum G font, a GPL-ed font that came along with LibreOffice 3.3.2, the one I use for ODF 
> production work.  The document is almost 4 MB because I asked Word to embed every font (it 
> included 9, including the Biolinum G).  
>   This is the Word document whose name begins with Fonts-2011-06-25-18100-..
>
>  2. An OpenOffice Text document produced from the Word document. It has no fonts and it is quite 
> small.  If you open it in LibreOffice 3.x, you may encounter a complaint that the file is 
> corrupted.  If so, let LibreOffice correct the document and it should be fine.  (There is some 
> breakage between some ODF 1.1 producers and some ODF 1.2 (anticipatory) consumers and we need to 
> sort that out.
>
>  3. A PDF. It doesn't seem to have the fonts either.  Apparently the export didn't conclude that 
> any were needed.  I gave it permission to export the ones it could.  Alternatively, it might have 
> exported just what was needed. I can't tell.
>
>  - Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: charles.h.schulz@gmail.com [mailto:charles.h.schulz@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Charles-H. 
> Schulz
> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 08:33
> To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
> Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Font Embedding in ODF (was RE: ANN: ODF 1.2 Candidate OASIS 
> Standard Enters 60-Day Public Review)
>
> Le Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:01:26 -0700 (PDT),
> plino <pedlino@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>   
> > Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> >     
> > > No it doesn't. 
> > >
> > >       
> > Of course it does.  Maybe you don't use it or don't know how to do
> > it. But don't say it doesn't.
> >     
> So are you saying your word documents embed fonts on a daily basis?
> I've never seen any similar documents. You get the impression of that
> -maybe- because on a windows to windows environment everybody uses
> fonts that are already available on the system. Of course, ODF (and
> others) do keep the reference of the font name and if I have the same
> font on my system it will try to reuse the same font. But just for
> reference: except for specific cases: office document formats including
> MSOffice DON'T include fonts. PDF does (there are less used formats)
> and that's what it's know for.
>
>
>   
> > Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> >     
> > > But I think we're also missing the point if -let's say
> > > we were to design a brand new office file format that embeds or does
> > > not embed fonts- why should anyone be using it? Choosing a format
> > > that's not the dominant format is already a reasoned choice,
> > > oftentimes an act of departure from the dominant player, and
> > > sometimes a political act. 
> > >       
> > I think you are missing the point: it's not simply a matter of the
> > embedded fonts. If the brand new file format that you are creating
> > wants to attract users it can never have less features than the one
> > it wants to replace. Or at least it can not miss critical features.
> >     
>
> Network effect. Do you have any idea how many superior formats have
> been created but that never got adopted?
>
>   
> > Even if people want to switch for "political" reasons, I'm sure they
> > don't want their work crippled...
> >     
>
> They don't, that's true. But don't mix the various purposes of formats.
>
> Best,
> Charles.
>
>   
And an improvement still would be a drop down list of fonts used in the
current document allowing multiple select of just those fonts to embed,
making LO just that 1 step better.
steve

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