Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format

On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 2:14 PM, BRM <bm_witness@yahoo.com> wrote:
several thread entries truncated

> > > > I will not support  or use LibreOffice
> > > >  until it stops helping spread OOXML by enabling  writing in this file
> > > > format. There is absolutely no need to write in  this proprietary format.
> To
> > > > do so is contrary to the principle of  using ODF and open source formats.
> > > >
> > > > See the  following:
> > http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2493&p=169740#p169507
> >
> > > > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20101219121621828
> > > >
> > > > ; Unless this changes I will strongly advocate in the support groups  I
> > > > participate the people stay with OpenOffice.org and not switch to
> > > >  LibreOffice.

One minor point here...OOo also supports writing to docx format.

> Perhaps LibO and all other Open Source projects - and perhaps anyone supporting
> ODF for that matter - should treat OOXML like Microsoft treats ODF and other
> formats - as third party as possible.
> In other words, read support should be something that users must enable; Save
> support should not be possible - it must be converted to either an older MS
> format (e.g. doc, xls) or ODF.
> We need to force MS to support ODF - as others have pointed out ODF is quickly
> becoming the world standard at least at the government level - which means in a
> few years most organizations that support governments will need to support ODF
> too, and a few years after that organizations that support those organizations,
> and so forth. MS has lost the file format battle to ODF - it's just time before
> OOXML (especially) and their legacy formats are gone.

As another writer has pointed out, forcing MS in these ways is
self-defeating. MS is not going to be forced in any direction. MS
managers are going to fulfill their legal obligation...make money,
enrich investors. LibO & TDF do not have this requirement. Attempts to
make things difficult for MS will really only make things difficult
for those people who are "required" to use MS products. Many of those
users don't have a choice. It is not appropriate to bruise users in
order to teach MS a lesson...a lesson that they probably won't learn
anyway.

A key point here needs amplification. As a USA citizen (even in
Washington State, up the road from Redmond) and an open source
community participant, my view is probably warped...I think that MS
has gone over the line of propriety many times with almost no adverse
consequence. They operate as a de facto monopoly. The US regulatory
agencies have done little to curb this anti-social behavior. To people
who live in another countries, I can only imagine how this behavior
appears. Surveys and anecdotes indicate that computer users in other
countries than the USA report software to be a sovereignty issue. LibO
has an international scope. Governments (Russia recently for example)
are moving to LibO and other open source applications to remove
themselves from the MS hegemony.

Reading a range of formats and offering the ability to save in a range
of formats is generous and supportive of the little person user. Going
along with MS' efforts to destroy the open document format does not,
in the end, support the little person user. MS has a near monopoly;
they use it to the greatest extent possible. The ultimate result of
unethical monopoly behavior is that the monopolist's products drive
other products out. There is no valid reason for aiding MS' efforts to
damage open source.


> The idea of LibO/etc reading OOXML pushes the issue - just like MS did to so
> many other formats to get people to convert to their formats.
> After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, no?

No, just because MS does it doesn't make it right. They are using
their market power unfairly. If LibreOffice focuses on serving users
generously, then _reading_ OOXML documents fits. Writing or saving as
OOXML only damages open source applications; there is no benefit to
users (as long as documents can be saved in a legitimate way). OOXML
is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

> Of course, all functionality should be dually advertised - with explanations as
> to why.
>
> Ben
>
> P.S. I am not advocating vengeance - just equal and fair play.
> P.P.S BTW, Office 2007 and later often get set to use the legacy formats by
> default as many organizations don't use OOXML if they have an  organizational
> standard. It's only those that don't that continue using  the defaults.

When somebody buys a new version of Office, their default save format
is docx. I've worked with less sophisticated users who get a new
computer and new Office to work from home. They can't understand why
their teachers (running earlier Office versions) can't open their
file. This is a bad deal that MS has foisted on people.

It is not necessary to make them pay for this bad behavior...it
wouldn't make much difference. But we shouldn't be accomplices to
their crime.

Carl

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+help@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***