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Hi Nino!

I try to add some thoughts to better understand what my intention is.
Skipping the Wiki discussion a bit and go to ...

Am Mittwoch, den 06.10.2010, 11:45 +0200 schrieb Nino Novak:
A wiki is a wiki is a wiki - so just set one up and let it
self-organize. Do not define too much contstraints in advance.

It's less about constraints, but to provide some basis to work on it.
Once we get the wiki, it will be (or maybe become) our primary
platform to share information. So my aim is to reduce the initial
hurdles ...

The problem I see (and have addressed in the other mail) are:
- who are *we* ??? Basically, tdf has announced its foundation. Some 
people are setting up an OOo fork & infrastructure. Other do not like 
to mention the word "fork" at all. 

Therefore, I strongly suggest to set up an empty wiki and NOT make the 
mistake to make any assumption about it structure in advance.

At least for me, TDF seems to aim to develop (in general terms) the best 
"ODF-user-interface" possible. But still nobody knows if forking OOo is 
the way to go or - just to bring in some differet ideas - integrating 
KOffice code with OOo code?, or setting up a product independend 
worldwide ODF QA community which just organizes testing? or doing 
mainly UX work? Or... we simply don't know.

Let's have a look at the mission by those, who want to establish TDF:
"[...] We will protect past investments by building on the solid
achievements of our first decade [...]" Project investments means, that
it is - at the moment - primarily about LibreOffice when talking about
software. A piece of software, where we (all together) invested a lot of
effort. It is still be developed and it requires maintenance.

Thus, we can learn a lot from the past/current experiences when
developing So - at least this is my take - we can get a
clear high-level understanding what will be required.

Having the TDF, there is also the potential to enhance the software or
to start real new things ... and now, it nicely fits to your proposals.

And - what structure do all the people involved want? How do we 
organize? Who will be responsible for what? How do we want to organize 
decision processes? Representative elections? and so on...

Therefore my guess is: let the community decide!

I think you are aware of the mail by André who provided some brief
statement what the current status is - with regard to the TDF group.
However, I don't understand yet why things like "shaping a front page",
or doing some rough categorization like "Website", "Marketing", ...
heavily affects the processes you are talking about. It is just a wiki,
that has to be filled with content and will be refined over time.

We just provide a starting point ... and referring to your latter
statement: we are the community, and we are here at the very moment ;-)

Absolutely, that is the reason for my questions :-) Most of you are
already actively using wikis, so why not learn from your experience
right from the start?

Because our experiences are related to different communities / groups. 

If this would be true, then "somebody" would just create "something". Of
course, this "somebody" hopes that this might be the perfect solution,
but there are other people who do have a different opinion. Now we are
in the dilemma of User Experience ... shaping something for people with
different tasks, background, culture, ... and at the end it shall still
work well.

The good thing is, that many people interested in FLOSS and LibreOffice
are already here to discuss their experiences and their expectations. So
I expect a rather good outcome :-)


And concerning "users of the wiki", Liz (being part of the OOo UX
Team), did a survey last year to check whether people are happy with
the OOoWiki:

Do you really just want to copy OOowiki and apply some improvements? 

Well, it's one possibility, but my feeling about this new community 
which is just about starting to form - they should be given a solid 
infrastructure but not told where to go. 

It seems we talk about different levels of structure. I am talking about
something similar to our "website" mailing list. So we might get a
"website" category and a "website" start page. That's it ... does it
enforce how to work with it? To me, it just makes things discoverable
when people start to add content (documentation, best practices, ...).

Currently, I lack some more details, but hey, why are we here?

All that said, I'd prefere to have a wiki farm for different
languages and not one multilanguage wiki - just to enhance
usability (mainly the search function).

It seems that we get quite a pile of "related to language"

yes, the international collaboration should be supported as good as 
possible :)

Not only the international collaboration, any kind of collaboration. And
so we can GOTO 10 ;-)


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