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Of late there are multiple posts on the users list regarding mail list
subscribe and unsubscribe issues.

A post back in October "[tdf-discuss] Mailing list user preferences?":
[Note: I tried to find the thread in:
but couldn't figure out how to easily search & gave up]
discusses some of this.

Florian points out an issue with mailman:
We use mlmmj for good reasons.
Mailman has a lot of options and the luxury of a web interface, but it's
a total mess for moderators. You have one password per list for all
moderators, and moderation via e-mail is a pain.

But I wonder if the issue with mailman (moderator passwords) is actually
the case:

I'm not versed on mailman, so I don't know the answer. However, the
current issue of mail list subscribers not being able to
subscribe/unsubscribe/modify user settings/etc in mlmmj as they can in
mailman is an issue. And it will likely be more of an issue as the
number of subscribers to the list(s) grow.

Perhaps Florian et al can explain just how TDF plan to implement the
lists, now and in the future? Some questions:

1. Why are unsubscribed posts even allowed? It would seem that folks
would have learned from the OOo list history.

2. Why are multiple moderators necessary? If it's to get some poor soul
to sort & reject spam, then there are automated tools to do that instead.

3. Why are we getting posts on the user & other lists using
Mlmmj — Mailing List Management Made Joyful:
that the user can't unsubscribe, or can't set nomail?

4. Why is it necesary to send an email for unsubscribe instructions?

Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
etc at all? Hello... is this some type of secret handshake that takes
place to get off of the users list?

This list has:
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to

What seems to be the problem with simply posting the unsubscribe
information on the website and at the bottom of each post? Such as:
To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to

To unsubscribe, e-mail to
When I subscribed I received the following:

Subject: =?utf-8?q?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Encoding: 8bit

Welcome! You have been subscribed to the


To unsubscribe send a message to:

And for help send a message to:

So why the requirement to send and ask for help? Is it because Mlmmj —
Mailing List Management Made Joyful may not be so resilient/secure
overall? Does the <listname> not work
any longer?

Let's please discuss & nip this issue in the bud now/early before the
lists/users grow & can no longer be managed properly.

Gary Lee

Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
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