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FWIW: I share they vision of Heiko. And also love answer to those questions :P

Holding on to LOOL without maintaining is kind of pointless, IMHO

However we land again in my beloved theme/question. What does TDF stand for?
Is TDF is an independent hub/platform sharing build infrastructure, maintaining/grouping collective bug database, collective bug tracking effort. Or has TDF own ideals and such. If TDF supposed to be a hub/platform they move of COOL is evil, as it touches to core purpose of TDF. Content moving outside they TDF hub/platform. And less independent maintainer. Next step would be moving they LibreOffice code. Opening a new bug tracker.. etc.. which leaves TDF to be empty shell and LibreOffice.org brand holder

In this scenario TDF LibreOffice becomes at a state OpenOffice currently is.  They major thing which maybe is holding back full fork is they LibreOffice.org brand. The most valuable asset of TDF. But this doesn't withholding to create new brand or me get hands on they OpenOffice. Which would both reduce they worth of LibreOffice.org over time A fork would be they same code - pretty they same attitude (I assume)- only with different management/governing body.  Not much different (in short term) Except they neutral management is dropped. Which opens they possibility of OpenOffice/Oracle stuff could repeat itself.
Not saying it would, history doesn't repeat itself exact the same way.

However they LOOL solution more temporal topic, if you ask me..

There must be some solution found to integrate COOL into TDF project. Or I see dissolving TDF in long term with fork of LibreOffice next to COOL. C'Office. Kind of modeled like OnlyOffice (or TinyMCE, CKEditor, Adguard). Github free code access + professional company page for end-users (paying non-geeks)

If TDF isn't code sharing platform (kind of github exclusively for LibreOffice), what does it represent? And is this some kind of utopia (idea)/ or down to earth (realistic) vision. As TDF LibreOffice rather dependent on a limited number of partners doing most of the work (code-wise). Not trying to discredit the work of volunteers.

Next question positioning of COOL at LibreOffice.
Still thinking we should 'communicate' that a online versions is available; to have full product range/ product palette.
To accommodate everybody. And having an alternative for MSO 365
[Sorry, for product vision of mine, for those who have strong project preference. End-users are mostly product users, IMHO]

They latter is more 'product' positioning topic. Within a project perspectives services kind out of scope. However the world is changing (Office Online) so this means adapting. Hosting LibreOffice Online by TDF would mean a move to services. And those services fit more in a 'product' model and not in 'project'. They other solution would be sharing they code only (so not binary's or boxed services)

However LibreOffice/TDF should cater the whole product palette to be 'relevant'/ competitive. Or TDF should do they reverse. Becoming more a code hub/platform. with bug tracker and kind daily builds and 'pre final' releases. Where final could also mean LTS quality.

There surely a need for some strategic vision what TDF represents they next decade
As TDF being pretty dependent on eco-system partners.

I don't want to wait for full detailed strategic vision of TDF (next decade) before marketing stuff can get started. So not want to squabble again 1-2 years about a strategic vision. However going without idea about what TDF should kind of hard.

They whole label matter is kind of obsolete if LibreOffice by TDF isn't a competitive product (because releases under label pre-release/testing)

Regards,
Telesto



Op 29-11-2020 om 10:32 schreef Heiko Tietze:

On 26.11.20 11:02, Florian Effenberger wrote:
1. to freeze (not delete) the "online" repository at TDF's git, for the time being
+1

1b. to switch the https://github.com/libreoffice/online mirror to instead mirror
0 (mirror COOL at LOOL might be confusing for volunteers)
+1 (if we could forward from LOOL to COOL)

2. to freeze (not delete) the translations for online in Weblate
+1/-1

I'm for a clear cut and a complete "outsourcing". What actually changes is the location of the repository and the label (LOOL becomes COOL). We can bring back
Online at any point in time by "reforking".

Consequently, l10n for COOL would be a different effort. But since most strings should be the same and translators probably don't want to create everything new, the best in the interest of the l10n team might be to have some kind of shared
memory, if that's possible.

Nevertheless we should actively support COOL and encourage volunteers to
contribute to both projects. It's a matter of communication and marketing to let users know that the front-end might be C'bra but it's actually LibreOffice what they use. Workflow, artwork, look and feel should make users not only home at both online and desktop but also show what part of the sister projects they are,
for example, reporting bugs.

Some remaining questions:
* How do we handle bug reports (BZ still has Online as project)?
* Will the LibreOffice help done by TDF also cover COOL (likely not)?
* Ask.LO is a convenient place for questions. Do we encourage people to provide support for COOL there too? Would be hard to stop them, but is this a place for
LibreOffice question that occur when using COOL.
* Will extensions and templates work for both and do we host it?
* What actions do we take or request to make COOL being clearly a LibreOffice product (need a better term here since it should be the same product and project too)? For example, the about dialog tells me nothing right now but could be the
same as on desktop.
* Will TDF tender development for Online in the future?
* How do we advertise COOL (and expect the same from C'bra)?
* What are the expectation of C'bra to TDF? Could imagine not to build own LOOL
binaries first of all.


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