[steering-discuss] libreoffice.org e-mail accounts

Hi,

However, as we had lots of irritating issues with @openoffice.org e-mail addresses, I would like to avoid these mistakes.

Well, the real problem at OOo with such adresses was, that anybody could register at the website and then could use an @ooo mail address.
So *anybody* could claim to have some connection to OOo.

It's evident that @documentfoundation.org accounts are only for those who work for/with TDF and are eligible to represent them in certain aspects, like the SC or administrators.

For LibreOffice, I'm a bit hesitant to hand out @libreoffice.org, as this may seem like people are acting on behalf of TDF, causing liability issues. Maybe I'm too touchy, so I'm happy for comments, which is why I am writing this mail. :slight_smile:

I don't see, that we will run into the same troubles as OOo. We have a defined membership process, people can only become members, if they did some work to further our projects and will continue to do so. So becoming a TDF member is a privilege, that needs to be earned.
Why should we not show, that we welcome our members by giving a libreoffice.org mail address? Besides the already mentioned fact, that longer domain names are ugly, I'd like to keep it stupid simple:
- TDF representatives (SC, ESC, BoD, MC ...) get documentfoundation.org mail aliasses
- approved members get libreoffice.org mail aliasses

regards,

André

Flo,
[...]

What are your thoughts?

I've forwarded your mail to the l10n list to get the feedback of the team. So the link to the archive of the thread is:
<http://go.mail-archive.com/LdL2QlAJepqW7wxcToMVwNaZbWE=>

Kind regards
Sophie

Hi Olivier, *,

Olivier Hallot schrieb:

OTOH if people use the email address "person@openoffice.org" then it
gets the name "OpenOffice" out there and being seen by a lot of
people. Free advertising!

+1
For some people this is even a matter of pride, like wearing a t-shirt
with a well known brand or message.

I agree with this.

Regarding easy handling:
I tend to expect there is more good than bad to be generous with
@libreoffice.org Mail adresses to people joining or even beeing in favor
of LibreOffice. Similar as, but not equal as of with openoffice.org. As
mentioned by Bernhard, there should be a mechanism of revoking it and it
should be clear for everyone this can happen in case of missuse.

So, nickname@libreoffice.org

+ 1

Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org

Gruß/regards

Hi,

Hi Olivier, *,

Olivier Hallot schrieb:

>> OTOH if people use the email address "person@openoffice.org" then
>> it gets the name "OpenOffice" out there and being seen by a lot of
>> people. Free advertising!

> +1
> For some people this is even a matter of pride, like wearing a
> t-shirt with a well known brand or message.

I agree with this.

Regarding easy handling:
I tend to expect there is more good than bad to be generous with
@libreoffice.org Mail adresses to people joining or even beeing in
favor of LibreOffice. Similar as, but not equal as of with
openoffice.org. As mentioned by Bernhard, there should be a mechanism
of revoking it and it should be clear for everyone this can happen in
case of missuse.

> So, nickname@libreoffice.org

+ 1

> Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org

+1, I would even add the following: @libreoffice.org are only available
for official contributors and even they have to request it (I don't
exactly see the automatic need for, say, a code contributor to have
such an address).

Best,
Charles.

Hi,

+1, I would even add the following: @libreoffice.org are only available
for official contributors and even they have to request it (I don't
exactly see the automatic need for, say, a code contributor to have
such an address).

Don't you think that the rule that active contributing is mandatory
for membership does apply? Else there will be members of different
degrees. :frowning:

Volker

Hi, :slight_smile:

Don't you think that the rule that active contributing is mandatory
for membership does apply? Else there will be members of different
degrees. :frowning:

+1

David Nelson

Hi,

>
> +1, I would even add the following: @libreoffice.org are only
> available for official contributors and even they have to request
> it (I don't exactly see the automatic need for, say, a code
> contributor to have such an address).
>
Don't you think that the rule that active contributing is mandatory
for membership does apply? Else there will be members of different
degrees. :frowning:

oh, yes, three times yes! Please don't misunderstand me: active
contributing gives right to membership (see the bylaws) and if you're a
member, you can therefore request a @libreoffice.org alias, but it's
just that you may or may not feel the need to have it (hence my example
about the developer); it simply depends on what you're doing and
whether you would like to have it or not.

best,
Charles.

If you guys would like i have experience setting up email servers on Linux.

it would be an imaps dovecot server + postfix.

the way it will work is in order to have an email you have to have an account on the server. also there will be web mail access, as well as access via clients like Thunderbird etc.

Hi Charles, *,

Who is it, You agree?

Charles-H. Schulz schrieb:

Olivier Hallot schrieb:

>> OTOH if people use the email address "person@openoffice.org" then
>> it gets the name "OpenOffice" out there and being seen by a lot
>> of people. Free advertising!

> +1
> For some people this is even a matter of pride, like wearing a
> t-shirt with a well known brand or message.

I agree with this.

Regarding easy handling:
I tend to expect there is more good than bad to be generous with
@libreoffice.org Mail adresses to people joining or even beeing in
favor of LibreOffice. Similar as, but not equal as of with
openoffice.org. As mentioned by Bernhard, there should be a
mechanism of revoking it and it should be clear for everyone this
can happen in case of missuse.

> So, nickname@libreoffice.org

+ 1

> Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org

+1, I would even add the following: @libreoffice.org are only
available for official contributors and even they have to request it
(I don't exactly see the automatic need for, say, a code contributor
to have such an address).

I've a different view whom beeing part of the community:
What's about one passing the (upcoming) DVD to his neighbour plus giving
him first support but never appearing in the official "contributing
system" here?

Whats about the teacher advocating and promoting LO in his scool or even
an excited user advocating the suite in his company? You wouldn't allow
him to use a @libreoffice.org alias?

You agree the statements of Tom, Olivier and mine one, finally
advocating the opposite - did You read it? :o))

No offence :o))

Gruß/regards

Hi guys,

> > Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org

+1, I would even add the following: @libreoffice.org are only available
for official contributors and even they have to request it (I don't
exactly see the automatic need for, say, a code contributor to have
such an address).

  I would agree; that handing out @libreoffice.org addresses is a
reasonable thing to do - for members.

  Unfortunately, we have no members yet: but the new MC hopefully will
solve that problem for us. Clearly membership needs policing to avoid
any mis-representation problems, but I think the number of these is very
small.

  Incidentally, as we give developers git commit access, they get an
@freedesktop.org re-direction anyway, so :wink: there is some elite club
that they join that way.

  Free advertising is always good, so if we can get a million
@libreoffice.org E-mails out, it can only be useful IMHO.

  ATB,

    Michael.

Hi guys ...

& ladies [ bows ]

I think that giving @LibreOffice.Org email addresses out to even non-members
would be a good way of getting the name "Libre Office" out there and visible.
People don't assume that Yahoo is represented by people with an @Yahoo.Co.Uk
address so could we do something similar? I think making it a requirement to
have a disclaimer in the signature is a non-starter because people will find all
sorts of problems with that.

By having the @LibreOffice.Org email addresses as a bit more exclusive, ie
restricting it to members, makes people want it more but decreases the chances
of getting our name out there.

At this point both options have good & bad points but we need to be clear about
which we are choosing and what we are losing because of that choice.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi again :slight_smile:

Clearly a lot of people agree with me about giving the email addresses out to
even non-members would do us a lot of good.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hello Friedrich,

Hi Charles, *,

Who is it, You agree?

Charles-H. Schulz schrieb:
>> Olivier Hallot schrieb:

>> >> OTOH if people use the email address "person@openoffice.org" then
>> >> it gets the name "OpenOffice" out there and being seen by a lot
>> >> of people. Free advertising!

>> > +1
>> > For some people this is even a matter of pride, like wearing a
>> > t-shirt with a well known brand or message.

>> I agree with this.

>> Regarding easy handling:
>> I tend to expect there is more good than bad to be generous with
>> @libreoffice.org Mail adresses to people joining or even beeing in
>> favor of LibreOffice. Similar as, but not equal as of with
>> openoffice.org. As mentioned by Bernhard, there should be a
>> mechanism of revoking it and it should be clear for everyone this
>> can happen in case of missuse.

>> > So, nickname@libreoffice.org

>> + 1

>> > Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org

> +1, I would even add the following: @libreoffice.org are only
> available for official contributors and even they have to request it
> (I don't exactly see the automatic need for, say, a code contributor
> to have such an address).

I've a different view whom beeing part of the community:
What's about one passing the (upcoming) DVD to his neighbour plus giving
him first support but never appearing in the official "contributing
system" here?

Whats about the teacher advocating and promoting LO in his scool or even
an excited user advocating the suite in his company? You wouldn't allow
him to use a @libreoffice.org alias?

Well, there are many ways you can define a community. What we do here is
define a threshold, a level of commitment which marks a point where we have
individuals who are committed enough to contribute in a seizable way. I'm
well aware there is a community of users, and even a community of fans, but
in my view they can benefit in different ways. Also note that there isn't a
rule that says users or fans should be hindered to participate. In contrary,
Membership is something you earn by contributing in a constant and seizable
way (see the Bylaws).

But I would like to give you an example, which is in fact a personal one. I
regularly use Claws Mail, an email client for reading and sending almost all
my mails.
I am quite happy with it, so happy in fact, that I'm an advocate of this
email client. I wrote two articles about it, I filed a bug report once,
chatted on the project's IRC... But I'm not requesting a
@claws-mail.orgemail address, and in fact, I don't know of any FOSS
project out there that
hands out email addresses for fans (aside something indirect such as
xyzprojectcommunity.org).

So to me there are also advocates and promoters who are very happy without
an email address or a special status.

You agree the statements of Tom, Olivier and mine one, finally
advocating the opposite - did You read it? :o))

Apparently I just read yours :slight_smile:

Cheers,

Charles.

Yes, obviously we can't force people to use any email address!

For me the question is how to be attractive enough that people do want to choose
to use it. Often just making something exclusive makes people want it more,
especially if there is a known kudos behind it.

One thing that worries me about making it members-only is what happens to people
whose contributions fall away for some legitimate reason? Also the cases of the
teacher or local advocate being forced to prove the size of their contribution
is likely to reduce the chances of them bothering. That doesn't hinder them
much but does hinder LibreOffice getting it's name out there.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hello Tom,

Yes, obviously we can't force people to use any email address!

For me the question is how to be attractive enough that people do want to
choose
to use it. Often just making something exclusive makes people want it
more,
especially if there is a known kudos behind it.

One thing that worries me about making it members-only is what happens to
people
whose contributions fall away for some legitimate reason?

See this section of our bylaws:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/CommunityBylaws#Membership

Also the cases of the
teacher or local advocate being forced to prove the size of their
contribution
is likely to reduce the chances of them bothering. That doesn't hinder
them
much but does hinder LibreOffice getting it's name out there.

Well I don't think so. Frankly if Mozilla had to give out email addresses to
anyone in order to spread firefox, I think we would have known it. :slight_smile:

Best,
Charles.

Ahh, excellent. A useful link there :slight_smile: Looks like good work too :slight_smile:

Wolvix also doesn't hand out email addresses to people but Ubuntu does. Yahoo
became quite well know despite doing little else except handing out email
addresses and grew from there.

Refusing to use 1 particular way of getting our name out there does not mean
total failure but if we always choose to have the least possible impact from the
greatest possible work then we are unlikely to get as far as Mozilla. Being
aware of possibilities for maximising results while minimising the effort
required to get the results might help us get good results.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hello,

thanks for all your feedback on this. To sum it up, I think this would be a good way to go:

* only approved members get an e-mail account
* this will be not a real mailbox with POP, IMAP and SMTP, but rather only a forwarder to an existing, external account
* they get nickname@libreoffice.org (with some sanity checks on the nickname, of course)
* as a rule, we somewhere should write that these accounts can be revoked anytime and that there is no "service guarantee"

For representatives of TDF (SC, BoD, MC, ESC etc.), things are like now: They can request their e-mail address @documentfoundation.org, and it will be a full mailbox with POP, IMAP and SMTP if required.

If you guys would like i have experience setting up email servers on Linux.

it would be an imaps dovecot server + postfix.

the way it will work is in order to have an email you have to have an
account on the server. also there will be web mail access, as well as
access via clients like Thunderbird etc.

Thanks a lot for the kind offer! I don't want to have real mailboxes, as this requires more infrastructure, has more liability issues and the like, so a simple forwarder should be enough. :wink:

Florian

Hello Friedrich,

Hi Charles, *,

Who is it, You agree?

Charles-H. Schulz schrieb:

Olivier Hallot schrieb:

OTOH if people use the email address "person@openoffice.org" then
it gets the name "OpenOffice" out there and being seen by a lot
of people. Free advertising!

+1
For some people this is even a matter of pride, like wearing a
t-shirt with a well known brand or message.

I agree with this.
Regarding easy handling:
I tend to expect there is more good than bad to be generous with
@libreoffice.org Mail adresses to people joining or even beeing in
favor of LibreOffice. Similar as, but not equal as of with
openoffice.org. As mentioned by Bernhard, there should be a
mechanism of revoking it and it should be clear for everyone this
can happen in case of missuse.

So, nickname@libreoffice.org

+ 1

Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org

+1, I would even add the following: @libreoffice.org are only
available for official contributors and even they have to request it
(I don't exactly see the automatic need for, say, a code contributor
to have such an address).

I've a different view whom beeing part of the community:
What's about one passing the (upcoming) DVD to his neighbour plus giving
him first support but never appearing in the official "contributing
system" here?

Whats about the teacher advocating and promoting LO in his scool or even
an excited user advocating the suite in his company? You wouldn't allow
him to use a @libreoffice.org alias?

Well, there are many ways you can define a community. What we do here is
define a threshold, a level of commitment which marks a point where we have
individuals who are committed enough to contribute in a seizable way. I'm
well aware there is a community of users, and even a community of fans, but
in my view they can benefit in different ways. Also note that there isn't a
rule that says users or fans should be hindered to participate. In contrary,
Membership is something you earn by contributing in a constant and seizable
way (see the Bylaws).

But I would like to give you an example, which is in fact a personal one. I
regularly use Claws Mail, an email client for reading and sending almost all
my mails.
I am quite happy with it, so happy in fact, that I'm an advocate of this
email client. I wrote two articles about it, I filed a bug report once,
chatted on the project's IRC... But I'm not requesting a
@claws-mail.orgemail address, and in fact, I don't know of any FOSS
project out there that
hands out email addresses for fans (aside something indirect such as
xyzprojectcommunity.org).

So to me there are also advocates and promoters who are very happy without
an email address or a special status.

     Friedrich may i add that all i have see on other FOSS projects is that mails are given to big time developers to the project, not users or fans of a given project.

Hello Friedrich,

Hi Charles, *,

Who is it, You agree?

Charles-H. Schulz schrieb:

Olivier Hallot schrieb:

OTOH if people use the email address "person@openoffice.org" then
it gets the name "OpenOffice" out there and being seen by a lot
of people. Free advertising!

+1
For some people this is even a matter of pride, like wearing a
t-shirt with a well known brand or message.

I agree with this.
Regarding easy handling:
I tend to expect there is more good than bad to be generous with
@libreoffice.org Mail adresses to people joining or even beeing in
favor of LibreOffice. Similar as, but not equal as of with
openoffice.org. As mentioned by Bernhard, there should be a
mechanism of revoking it and it should be clear for everyone this
can happen in case of missuse.

So, nickname@libreoffice.org

+ 1

Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org

+1, I would even add the following: @libreoffice.org are only
available for official contributors and even they have to request it
(I don't exactly see the automatic need for, say, a code contributor
to have such an address).

I've a different view whom beeing part of the community:
What's about one passing the (upcoming) DVD to his neighbour plus giving
him first support but never appearing in the official "contributing
system" here?

Whats about the teacher advocating and promoting LO in his scool or even
an excited user advocating the suite in his company? You wouldn't allow
him to use a @libreoffice.org alias?

Well, there are many ways you can define a community. What we do here is
define a threshold, a level of commitment which marks a point where we have
individuals who are committed enough to contribute in a seizable way. I'm
well aware there is a community of users, and even a community of fans, but
in my view they can benefit in different ways. Also note that there isn't a
rule that says users or fans should be hindered to participate. In contrary,
Membership is something you earn by contributing in a constant and seizable
way (see the Bylaws).

But I would like to give you an example, which is in fact a personal one. I
regularly use Claws Mail, an email client for reading and sending almost all
my mails.
I am quite happy with it, so happy in fact, that I'm an advocate of this
email client. I wrote two articles about it, I filed a bug report once,
chatted on the project's IRC... But I'm not requesting a
@claws-mail.orgemail address, and in fact, I don't know of any FOSS
project out there that
hands out email addresses for fans (aside something indirect such as
xyzprojectcommunity.org).

So to me there are also advocates and promoters who are very happy without
an email address or a special status.

     Friedrich may i add that all i have see on other FOSS projects is that mails are given to big time developers to the project, not users or fans of a given project.

Hi Jonathan, *,

Jonathan Aquilina schrieb:

Charles-H. Schulz schrieb:

Olivier Hallot schrieb:

[..]

Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org

+1, I would even add the following: @libreoffice.org are only
available for official contributors and even they have to request
it (I don't exactly see the automatic need for, say, a code
contributor to have such an address).

I've a different view whom beeing part of the community:
What's about one passing the (upcoming) DVD to his neighbour plus
giving him first support but never appearing in the official
"contributing system" here?

[..]

So to me there are also advocates and promoters who are very happy
without an email address or a special status.

    Friedrich may i add that all i have see on other FOSS projects is
that mails are given to big time developers to the project, not users
or fans of a given project.

"All" is a big word here ;o)). I was Member of one of the largest FOSS
communities (think of three "O" two upper case, lower case the last) for
many (some 7 or 8) years, where it was obligatory to get a mailadress
just to have an account for some (by far not all) community resources
(issuetracker). So You did oversee at least one.. And the best: there
was no way to get rid of it! No way to delete the account :o)).

Seriously I think in respect of our (the successor of the above) project
size we have to go our own way. And I continue thinking it wasn't to bad
to get "a member" that easy.

Gruß/regards