Re: [board-discuss] Merged proposal for in-house developers at TDF

Hi Simon,

On 12/06/2022 11:17, Simon Phipps wrote:
> Hi Emilliano,
>
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 9:31 AM Emiliano Vavassori 
> <syntaxerrormmm@libreoffice.org> wrote:
>
>     Hi Simon,
>
>     Il 11/06/22 20:02, Simon Phipps ha scritto:
>     > I will remind you
>     > that you started this negative approach about how TDF is acting
>     > illegally when you and I were on the Board together last decade.
>
>     I'm honestly struggling to see how your comments can be thought as
>     positive.
>
>
> They are to help newcomers like you become aware that the complaints 
> being made are not in fact new or related to the current situation but 
> date back to a dispute that is many years old and still unresolved due 
> to personal enmities.

I was a newcomer in 2020 and I didn't get much help from you or other 
old members of the board in understanding the past to take decision for 
the future of TDF.

I had to spend a lot of time reading lots of minutes of past meetings 
and keep asking difficult questions to get to the point where I could 
clearly see that some decisions being passed down to us (eg TDC) had 
issues that haven't been considered.

It is good to have people like Andreas that point out issues that should 
be evaluated by newcomers before they fall into a group thinking 
situation that does not help with addressing problems and moving forward.


> I am sorry you do not find this helpful, but being aware of the true 
> history of the project (especially at a time when there are voices 
> trying to reframe history) is very important and refusing to do so may 
> lead to incorrect assumptions and the acceptance of untrue framing.

It is important to learn about the past to plan for the future. 
Discovering some details that are not widely publicised helps in fixing 
some issues that have been overlooked.

TDF is not just a small group of friends developing LibreOffice any 
more, it is now a larger organisation that needs to apply some rules so 
that it creates a level playing field for everyone that wants to 
contribute in many ways, not only with code which for some seems to be 
the only measure if some people or organisations are more equal than others.


>     And how should users and members should voice their unsettlement,
>     without risking to be stopped at every corner and called out for
>     violations of CoC.
>
>
> By entering into a dialogue. By hearing and evolving compromises with 
> other members through selecting positive elements of their 
> contributions. By collaborating together even when uncomfortable. By 
> respecting the honest contributions of long-time contributors. This 
> place is hardly a close venue.

Compromises and unanimity in decisions would be great but are not always 
possible as some points of view are too far apart.

Some cling very hard onto their acquired positions and it is very 
difficult and frustrating to get them to understand that times have 
changed and that is not only their code that makes TDF, our community 
and LibreOffice great for all.

Even when compromises have been agreed some decide to walk away and not 
contribute back to a project like LOOL that isn't made up only by code 
but also by lots of contributions from the rest of our community.

> How should members voice their concerns when they see entryists 
> harming the project and old unsettled grudges being repeatedly raised 
> regardless of how they are answered?

"Entryists" bring also fresher, different point of views and ask the 
questions that some don't want to hear. "Entryists" helped in stopping a 
project you promoted that would have been damaging for TDF and our 
community, "entryists" tried to bring clarity on what LOOL really was 
and found out that reality was different from what was promoted, 
"entryists" got finally a CoI Policy in place for the board and (IMHO) 
should implement it also for the ESC, "entryists" are still working on 
lots of other improvements that will help TDF serve better its community.

So yes, "entryists" should look at both side of the arguments, dig 
deeper in their merits and then promote the required changes.

I hope you noticed the usefulness of "entryists" and that you will help 
them with unbiased information in future instead of attacking them 
because they haven't conformed with your views.

> Sincerely,
>
> Simon
> --
> *Simon Phipps*
> /TDF Trustee/
Ciao

Paolo

--
Paolo Vecchi - Member of the Board of Directors
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