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Hi All,

UK out of the question only because of Brexit?
Yes, it has to taken into in account, but isn't a disqualification in advance A major contributor has been located there. And Brexit isn't the end of the world.

Luxembourg being seen as a tax haven. Are we talking about a multi-national or a SME  :-)
Makes sense for Amazon with 42 billion turn over a year.
Netherlands being a tax haven is also depending on the perspective. Don't think the Dutch SME's agree. And it's not a stable constant either; things tend to shift a lot. So people might still have impression of a tax having; will it not the case anymore.
Or a country becoming a tax haven, but without public knowledge..
So I personally don't attribute much weight to it.

People being able to do the paper work. And enough replacements to do they job is important. IMHO. Having connections with people in the area. And knowledge about local law (contracts/ fiscal) is also useful. Which from my perspective would mean around they current bastions of people (UK/DE). And even more specific in the region of the current bases. UK/DE are pretty big country's. FWIW: nothing against LU.. Every country has it own particularity's, but overall pretty the same if you ask me. Principles, idea's. A lawyers like comparing different systems a lot, which in the end mostly ends up with more similar structure (as it is seen as the best way of doing things) Even cross border mergers are possible (which to some extend illustrates how harmonic those actually are) If one country would be superior all the way, every enterprise would move/locate itself to single country.

BTW, I assume all proposals use the same format? Ideally even the same headings/ topics. So everybody is doing investigating the same thing (asking the same questions).
Don't like to see 3 country options, with total different approaches etc.
Would probably feel like comparing apples with oranges.

Best,
Telesto



Op 2-10-2020 om 13:42 schreef Paolo Vecchi:

Thanks Michael for your kind support for my proposal and to introduce me
to Lionel.

Hi Lionel! Let's get in touch to check together my proposal.

In regards to the previous proposal I'm still of the idea that it
presents as number of issues which have been discussed at lenght but not
resolved and that the UK isn't at present a place where I would open a
new company that will need to trade with the EU and the rest of the world.

Ciao

Paolo



On 02/10/2020 10:10, Michael Meeks wrote:
Hi Andreas,

On 30/09/2020 09:40, Andreas Mantke wrote:
  c) form sub-group to work out and publish business entity proposals
     URL: https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/3294
     Status: Criteria list (Lothar) Draft proposal for Luxemburg entity
(Paolo), next meeting orga(Thorsten)  ->> https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/NeBWm25cd2LHyoq
...
it's not a really appropriate behavior of a German charity to create a
business entity in a country, which is known as a legal tax shelter.
        I'm sure no-one would want us to search the world for a jurisdiction
that is maximally burdensome to incorporate and r

un in =)

        For my part Luxembourg has the major benefit that Paolo wants to be
involved and help get something done. It is hard to over-state how
important it is to have not only a concrete proposal but good people on
the ground. Incidentally this is why I was -so- dismayed to see the UK
option discarded on what I felt were poor grounds.

        Either way - another advantage of Luxembourg is that we are blessed
with having Lionel (CC'd) based there - at a professional accountancy
that (if we're really nice) may kindly offer us the benefit of their
accounting experience & help with oversight. That combination of long
term understanding of FLOSS, LibreOffice as well as local company / tax
issues would be an incredible plus.

        Beyond that - having a concrete proposal from any other jurisdiction
would be fine - but we should get moving.

        Andreas - if you want to get involved - I believe Florian is working on
a German entity proposal as another option - hopefully we see that soon.
Personally I think there may be merit in a UK option still - if Simon is
interested in engaging.

        I think we've discussed a few tests (perhaps there are more) for an
entity to sell things in the app-store:

        * protect TDF by some effective separation ie. a
          different entity.
        * have an corporate'y structure ie. no
          unexpected restriction on activity
        * provide for effective control by TDF
        * provide for operational isolation from the BoD
                + though I'm still hopeful we can de-stress
                  the BoD relationships over time.
        * have low running costs, risks, and overheads
        * have local people willing to file forms / documents
        * have English Gov't interaction so all is transparent

        Perhaps something else ?

        One of the wider problems we have I think is a lack of decisiveness.
Also some sort of steady stream of people arriving late to a discussion
and re-starting it =) perhaps that is inevitable as discussions ripple
outwards through the community as they get more concrete.

        From a process perspective I think we'd want to get a deadline for
short, summary proposals - perhaps under some agreed grid / headings
(cf. above) - that we can present to the membership as a simple poll (we
have a great ranked / voting method to handle this sort of thing).

        With the membership's views in hand, the board could perhaps vote to
give confidence to the teams involved to get on with final preparation
and the actual formation.

        Again - it would be lovely to help out by build a constructive,
detailed alternative proposal if you can Andreas, and I imagine that
would be welcome.

        My 2 cents,

                Michael.



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