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On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 5:59 AM, drew jensen <> wrote:
On Tue, 2012-05-22 at 08:25 -0500, Norbert Thiebaud wrote:
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 5:36 AM, sophie <> wrote:
This is what language communities are supposed to do : give those who don't
speak English a chance to be part of the project. We can't rely only on
English speaking people to grow the community and represent it every where
in the world. This is why settling each of our actions on an i18n point of
view first is very important.

That conjure to me the following quote (from a brazillian TDF member
on the aooo-dev ML)

"4 - Suddenly, TDF was requesting that every person who wanted to be called
a "contributor" should fill a agreement request in order to be
"recognized". So we became to be concerned about that huge amount of people
who contributed and didn't want to fill a formal agreement to a foreign
organization that don't speak their language and has a lot of "channels",
many of them obscured.
5 - In addition, people who we were fighting bacame key persons in TDF. One
of them became a "brazilian" member of the BoD, with 70 votes, when
brazilian accepted members in Brazil were less than 15 and most of them
didn't vote for him."

Which, to me, indicate that the language barrier is being use and
abuse to mislead (*), and the underlying 'nationalism' is disturbing
to me. the notion the TDF should be the UN with 'national
representative' is pretty scary (**) :-(

Hi Norbert

I think you make too much of the statement from one person. Some people
will leave in a huff, no matter what policies are in place.


I quoted the statement above not for the specific of the case but for
its illustration value:

I also think that what you refer to as a problem with Nationalism is

let me narrow the quote:
"One of them became a "brazilian" member of the BoD, with 70 votes, when
brazilian accepted members in Brazil were less than 15 and most of them
didn't vote for him.""

isn't the author arguing that a BoD candidat that happen to have
nationality X must have the majority support of the members that also
share that irrelevant trait.
and reciprocally, isn't the author complaining that the artificial (in
our context) subgroup defined by that irrelevant criteria is not
properly represented as such ?

Considering that the irrelevant criteria in question is 'National
Origin', how is Nationalism not an accurate description ? Maybe
'Chauvinism' ?

To go back to the original issue:

1/ I have no problem with TDF developing alternative way to
'recognize' people. But that is more a Internal Marketing/Community
Management topic than a MC topic.
2/ Volunteer can translate and help people that do not know any
English, including our Statue/Bylaw and other Foundation related
document, actually I'd encourage that, as it would help avoid some
confusion, apparently.
3/ I have a practical problem receiving Application/Renewal request in
anything but English. English is _not_ my native language, but that is
a practical, and relatively simple(*), working language. And as much
as I would like to, I cannot be expected to speak all the language of
the planet, nor is any MC member. So, official/formal communication,
like membership application and renewal, must practically be en
English. I'm very open to review and correction so that we avoid
Idioms and other complex formulation is such documents, but it shall
still be in English nonetheless.

(*)I've dabbled with few languages, by curiosity... I took German and
Latin in  middle school, I did a short stint of Spanish.. I even
glanced at Russian, Japanese and Chinese...
English, as it turns out if a pretty simple language. Very little
grammar, almost no conjugation, no declination, fairly limited
vocabulary... as a consequence it is fairly easy - compared to other
languages -  to reach a level that allow written communication.



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