[Libreoffice-qa] End of the line for 3.3 family and regressions

Board Discuss
#1

Hi Korrawit, all

So, what should we do to each group of bugs? Anyway, I'm not sure
whether there are how many bugs in each group, or even there is any
bug in some group. Maybe we need separate discussion?

This isn't simply a matter of checking and reporting bugs. It involves
the Quality of a product this Community claims to be Enterprise ready.
IMO there can be NO regressions.

I think this is way over our (QA) heads given the sheer amount of
unfixed bugs. It doesn't seem realistic the release date of January 11
especially because this is the Christmas season and most people here
are volunteers.

The TDF BoD and the Devs need to make a decision about how to handle this.

#2

Hi Pedro, *,

Pedro Lino wrote (10-12-11 12:46)

So, what should we do to each group of bugs? Anyway, I'm not sure
whether there are how many bugs in each group, or even there is any
bug in some group. Maybe we need separate discussion?

It is already for some time now, that there is need for more bug handling in BugZilla. Only that can lead to specific qualification and discussion.

This isn't simply a matter of checking and reporting bugs. It involves
the Quality of a product this Community claims to be Enterprise ready.
IMO there can be NO regressions.

Does not sound like a real life scenario, IMO. Some regressions will slip in now and then.

I think this is way over our (QA) heads given the sheer amount of
unfixed bugs.

There is the mechanism that gives all of us the possibility to propose the serious problems as most annoying. Which has been used continuously over the past year, and with success in the sense that bugs, also nasty old ones, have been fixed.

Nevertheless, I agree with the meaning of this topic:
When 3.4.5 has been released, it will take some time and a few (2, 3 ?) releases in the 3.5-branch to be on approximately the same level as 3.4.4/5.
So that *might* lead to a situation where again several months waiting is necessary to be able to profit from improvements after 3.3.x ... And the potential risk of this is serious, so we may not think too light about this.
The 'simple' solution is: make sure that the problems that are so serious, that you will not be able to use 3.4.x, despite the many improvements (also bugwise) in that branch, are well described and nominated 3.4-most annoying.

Does that make sense?

It doesn't seem realistic the release date of January 11 especially because
this is the Christmas season and most people here are volunteers.

Indeed, something to take into account.

Cheers,

#3

Hi Pedro,

This isn't simply a matter of checking and reporting bugs. It involves
the Quality of a product this Community claims to be Enterprise ready.
IMO there can be NO regressions.

  Having no regressions is really a feature. That makes it rather
incompatible with a time-based release schedule. It is also a highly
expensive feature, and it is unclear who is going to do the work fixing
every regression in 3.4.x, particularly as the majority of dev. work has
switched focus to improving 3.5.x, and particularly since many bugs can
be classed as regressions if we try hard :slight_smile:

  I agree with you that the claim of "Enterprise ready" is perhaps
somewhat misleading and IMHO rather unhelpful. LibreOffice is not
Enterprise ready without enterprise support (which is capable of fixing
any regressions or issues a customer may experience). No matter how good
the job we do, customers will always find more bugs they need fixing,
regression or not.

The TDF BoD and the Devs need to make a decision about how to handle this.

  I would recommend sticking to our time-based release schedule - there
are rather a number of nice bug fixes in 3.4.5 as it is, I've been
watching a few longer standing issues get nailed there.

  Having said all that, I don't see that 3.4.5 has to be the last release
in that series. I anticipate that people will still continue to merge
critical and/or obviously correct fixes and/or security fixes to the
libreoffice-3-4 branch, and we may have a 3.4.6 at some stage. We had a
particularly long 3.5 development cycle, so ...

  Of course, if some enterprise wants to support 3.4.x and continue
porting fixes to it & releasing they are of course most welcome to do
that indefinitely.

  What we need to do about the 3.3.x bugs, I don't know. If we have no
resources to re-test them vs. 3.4 - I would suggest we wait until we
have a good 3.5 beta to point at, and close them all with a comment
asking users to reproduce them in 3.5 and re-open/re-target them at that
version. But perhaps that is too harsh ? :slight_smile: either way, leaving bugs
malingering vs. 3.3.x while knowing full well that they'll be hidden vs.
that version is not so useful I think.

  At least, that's my take :slight_smile:

  HTH,

    Michael.

#4

People who think there should be zero regressions are welcome to donate the necessary time and financial resources to
make it happen.

Michael Meeks wrote:

Hi Pedro,

This isn't simply a matter of checking and reporting bugs. It involves
the Quality of a product this Community claims to be Enterprise ready.
IMO there can be NO regressions.

  Having no regressions is really a feature. That makes it rather
incompatible with a time-based release schedule. It is also a highly
expensive feature, and it is unclear who is going to do the work fixing
every regression in 3.4.x, particularly as the majority of dev. work has
switched focus to improving 3.5.x, and particularly since many bugs can
be classed as regressions if we try hard :slight_smile:

  I agree with you that the claim of "Enterprise ready" is perhaps
somewhat misleading and IMHO rather unhelpful. LibreOffice is not
Enterprise ready without enterprise support (which is capable of fixing
any regressions or issues a customer may experience). No matter how good
the job we do, customers will always find more bugs they need fixing,
regression or not.

The TDF BoD and the Devs need to make a decision about how to handle this.

  I would recommend sticking to our time-based release schedule - there
are rather a number of nice bug fixes in 3.4.5 as it is, I've been
watching a few longer standing issues get nailed there.

  Having said all that, I don't see that 3.4.5 has to be the last release
in that series. I anticipate that people will still continue to merge
critical and/or obviously correct fixes and/or security fixes to the
libreoffice-3-4 branch, and we may have a 3.4.6 at some stage. We had a
particularly long 3.5 development cycle, so ...

  Of course, if some enterprise wants to support 3.4.x and continue
porting fixes to it & releasing they are of course most welcome to do
that indefinitely.

  What we need to do about the 3.3.x bugs, I don't know. If we have no
resources to re-test them vs. 3.4 - I would suggest we wait until we
have a good 3.5 beta to point at, and close them all with a comment
asking users to reproduce them in 3.5 and re-open/re-target them at that
version. But perhaps that is too harsh ? :slight_smile: either way, leaving bugs
malingering vs. 3.3.x while knowing full well that they'll be hidden vs.
that version is not so useful I think.

  At least, that's my take :slight_smile:

  HTH,

    Michael.

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