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Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?


Hi :)
It's not to restructure the entire TDF existing infrastructure!  What is there works extremely well 
except in the case of Base.  We clearly don't need separate lists for the other apps as they are 
all doing fine as they are both in documentation and in keeping devs that start work on them.  

It is good to hear that the default back-end issue appears to have been decided already although i 
thought there were problems with Sqlite too.  Certainly MariaDb sounds too heavy for a default.  
Anyway i didn't mean to start discussion here as most of the people that have expressed interest in 
Base in the last few months are not on this list.  

Base loses people almost faster than it attracts them but it does attract an odd person or 2 
occasionally.  
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Sun, 11/9/11, Norbert Thiebaud <nthiebaud@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Norbert Thiebaud <nthiebaud@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Date: Sunday, 11 September, 2011, 19:09

On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
HI :)
Base needs to have some documentation to help devs understand what it's trying to do.

With the other apps it's much easier to have an overview even without having any documentation 
but Base is a lot more complex.  Also there needs to be some discussion between devs and other 
people to decide what to use instead of java, and the direction to take generally.  Apparently 
the default HqSql back-end is fairly troublesome but there is a new project "MariaDb" that is a 
drop-in replacement for MySql that might be much better as a back-end.  MariaDb is basically 
almost the entire community that worked on MySql including some of the original people plus a 
load of new people that joined since the project broke free from Sun/Oracle.

MariaDB is like MySql, so it is a nice and powerful database, but too
heavy weight(*) for a 'default' back-end. SQLite sound like a much
better match for the task.

(*) by too heavy weight, I'm referring to installation, configuration,
need for started-task/daemon, need for periodic maintenance etc...

Anyway it needs a small team of people to try out different back-ends to see which are viable as 
back-ends and which might be easiest to have as the default one.  Perhaps bringing their 
recommendation back to steering-discuss to make an informed vote.

That's not how it works... voting is not the answer... doing is. I'm
pretty sure that if somebody step up to make a viable support for a
self-contained back-end, it will fidn its way into the code by
consensus, without the need for a 'vote', or getting the steering
commity or future BoD involved in any ways.
BTW this is already listed as an 'Easy Hack' :
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Easy_Hacks#default_to_SQLite_not_HSQLDB_in_Base
So clearly this is not a technical/political disagreement, but just a
matter of  someone stepping up to do the work...



As i understand it the current infra-structure is leading to Base gently crumbling away through 
neglect.

It is not an infrastructure problem. it is a lack of interest problem.

  Experienced devs steer well away from Base.  New ones need to learn more understanding about 
coding or about Base or about both.  Every time an individual joins and is keen to work on some 
aspect of Base they realise it's a completely tangled mess and they would be the only person 
working on it so they get discouraged and give-up.

That is true for every part of the product. the effort needed to find
your way in the code is high, and base is not special in that regard.
I seriously doubt that it is easier to find your way around writer
than it is to find your way around base.


Yes it would be great to have input from the entire devs list but
1.  They are not interested in Base
That is indeed a problem, but I fail to see how starting to section
the community vertically ( vs horizontally like the ml are now) will
help

2.  The non-coders that want to do non-coding work on Base (eg Documentation, perhaps marketing, 
perhaps design of aspects of the UI that only appear in Base, the wizards and so on) would be 
unable to understand.

I don't understand what you mean with that paragraph...

Norbert

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