[steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting

Hello,

as some of you know, the TDF admins had a system operations meeting in Munich about one month ago: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/System_Operations/Meeting_2011-01

Since we had many people from various regions who are engaging themselves as admins, the German association agreed on spending 1.000 € for travel and lodging. Luckily, more people than initially planned joined, but that also means that the budget doesn't suffice.

In total, when we want to pay everyone their hotels, and their travel, we would end up with about 1.600 € in total, so 600 € more than initially planned. I have to formally ask the German association's board of directors for approval, but since I intend to use the TDF bank account for payments, I wanted to check with the SC first if you would support such a request or not.

As the weekend was a pure working weekend, and people spend lots of their time during week and on weekends, for keeping our infrastructure running, I consider it justified to not give them the burden of also paying out of their own pockets.

Florian

Hi :slight_smile:
+1
Although my vote doesn't count. It's a bad idea generally but it was a
difficult one to budget for since it's still so early in TDF's existence. Lets
hope future meetings are so productive and so well attended!

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Florian Effenberger wrote:

As the weekend was a pure working weekend, and people spend lots of
their time during week and on weekends, for keeping our
infrastructure running, I consider it justified to not give them the
burden of also paying out of their own pockets.

+1

-- Thorsten

Thorsten Behrens wrote:

Florian Effenberger wrote:

As the weekend was a pure working weekend, and people spend lots of
their time during week and on weekends, for keeping our
infrastructure running, I consider it justified to not give them the
burden of also paying out of their own pockets.

+1

-- Thorsten

+1
Italo

+1

Charles.

+1
Sophie

Hi,

Von: Florian Effenberger <floeff@documentfoundation.org>

In total, when we want to pay everyone their hotels, and their travel,
we would end up with about 1.600 € in total, so 600 € more than
initially planned. I have to formally ask the German association's board
of directors for approval, but since I intend to use the TDF bank
account for payments, I wanted to check with the SC first if you would
support such a request or not.

+1

André

Hi,

Von: Florian Effenberger <floeff@documentfoundation.org>

In total, when we want to pay everyone their hotels, and their travel,
we would end up with about 1.600 € in total, so 600 € more than
initially planned. I have to formally ask the German association's board
of directors for approval, but since I intend to use the TDF bank
account for payments, I wanted to check with the SC first if you would
support such a request or not.

+1

André

Hi Florian,

as some of you know, the TDF admins had a system operations meeting in
Munich about one month ago:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/System_Operations/Meeting_2011-01

*Some* being the operative word... I never heard about this... Was it
publicized at all on the website mailing list and I missed it?

In any case, if you do another one, could you maybe give me a
heads-up? It would have been interesting to meet other people
administering infrastructure for TDF.

TIA if so, :wink:

Hi David,

*Some* being the operative word... I never heard about this... Was it
publicized at all on the website mailing list and I missed it?

no, it was in first place a board decision of the German association, so it was published in their meeting minutes (in German). However, since it affects TDF, I wanted to raise the topic here.

In any case, if you do another one, could you maybe give me a
heads-up? It would have been interesting to meet other people
administering infrastructure for TDF.

This meeting was only an internal one for the existing admins, so we didn't spread the word too far. However, we might make a workshop for interested parties the next time.

Florian

Now you are getting me really confused.

Who decided what, and who is paying what ?

Norbert

Hi,

Now you are getting me really confused.

Who decided what, and who is paying what ?

the board of directors of the German association, which will stay an independent entity also after TDF has been funded, but in the meantime is the legal entity behind TDF, decided that in their board of director's meeting.

So, a decision by the German association, *not* by the TDF SC.

However, since more money then offered by the German association is needed, and the weekend was for the TDF admins, I'd like to ask if the SC is agreeing to spending some of the TDF money for it.

Florian

Hi,

> Now you are getting me really confused.
>
> Who decided what, and who is paying what ?

the board of directors of the German association, which will stay an
independent entity also after TDF has been funded, but in the meantime
is the legal entity behind TDF, decided that in their board of
director's meeting.

So, a decision by the German association, *not* by the TDF SC.

OK - that sounds as if the decision by the FrODev BOD was to expend the
1,000 euro from the FrODev account, not the the TDF account, yes?

However, since more money then offered by the German association is
needed, and the weekend was for the TDF admins,

Actual costs exceeded projection by 60%.

I'd like to ask if the
SC is agreeing to spending some of the TDF money for it.

Is the SC agreeing then to pay the entire 1,600 euro from the TDF fund
now, or just the 600 excess?

Thanks,

Drew

Ahh, so you're asking TDF to cover the 600 euro budget overrun. Now I get it :slight_smile:
Thanks for the clarification

Norbert

Hi Drew, *,

However, since more money then offered by the German association is
needed, and the weekend was for the TDF admins,

Actual costs exceeded projection by 60%.

Nope that's not true - there was no planning on how much it would
cost, there was the 1000€ approved form FrODev account to begin with.

It was clear from the beginning that the 1000€ would not cover all
expenses though (travel & accommodation). If that would have been a
planned limit, the number of participants would have had to be
restricted. Instead while people were of course hoping that the
overshoot would not be too high and thus approved by TDF they were
also prepared that they might only get a fraction of their expenses
compensated.

ciao
Christian

Hi,

OK - that sounds as if the decision by the FrODev BOD was to expend the
1,000 euro from the FrODev account, not the the TDF account, yes?

that's how I understood it. However, since the weekend was solely TDF-related, and the association doesn't get any donations right now, but TDF gets, I would even propose to take the money from the TDF account, which I find just fair.

Actual costs exceeded projection by 60%.

Positively said, many more people volunteered to work as admins, which is a good sign, so 60% cost exceeding shouldn't be a concern. Many other foundations I know have paid fulltime admins, so we can consider ourselves very happy that just travel funding is needed. :slight_smile:

Is the SC agreeing then to pay the entire 1,600 euro from the TDF fund
now, or just the 600 excess?

I would indeed propose the former one, to be honest.

Florian

Hi,

Ahh, so you're asking TDF to cover the 600 euro budget overrun. Now I get it:-)
Thanks for the clarification

actually, I would like to ask to cover everything from the TDF account, as this would be fair.

Of course, if the German association wants to spend the 1,600 € from their account, then only the 600 € are needed, but from my gut feeling, paying everything from the TDF account would make more sense to me.

Florian

Hi :slight_smile:
So the work was done for TDF but the decision to do the work was taken by one of
the communities.

I thought the event was a different one. One that had been discussed in here.
I remember people using the mailing list to meet up for further discussion at
the end of one of the days but i guess that was a different event?

Since TDF does have plenty of money to cover the short-fall i think it should.
We don't want to discourage people from doing work that benefits TDF! I do
agree with David's earlier post that it would be good for the SC and BoD know
about events in advance.

If the SC or BoD had been asked in advance then i'm fairly sure they would have
agreed to pay about half if the other half was being paid by a community group.
The problem is that the decision should have been put to the SC/BoD in advance.
I think agree to it this time but avoid it in the future?
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi :slight_smile:
+1
for the full amount this time because TDF can afford it this time.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

I don't disagree that, based on the agenda and participants, it would
make more sens, but then why didn't you put the initial budget
proposal in front of the TDF SC rather than the 'German Association'
board ?

(anyway, my quibbling was triggered by the notion that one should
translate German minutes of another association to be informed on what
is going on at TDF :slight_smile: )

Norbert