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Re: [steering-discuss] FYI: Apache Incubator is now voting

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 2:06 AM, David Nelson <> wrote:

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 23:09, Greg Stein <> wrote:
* "non-binding" votes are from other participants in the conversation.
Their "votes" are allowed as a measure and gauge over the broader
community opinion, even though they will not actually be tallied in
the final ballot.

It's true that this could be a good way to "take the temperature" in
the community about issues being voted on... Maybe our LibreOffice SC
could think about this before the bylaws are fully stabilized?

This is not a matter of bylaws.
Such non-binding voting is 'already', if you want, in the bylaws in
the sens that such 'non-biding vote' are an expression
of free speech but are not counted toward the final tally. In that
regard that is fully compatible
with the current bylaws.

Furthermore the bylaws are 'fully stabilized', and substantially have
been so for few months now.
changing/adding anything substantial at this point would mean doing
the whole English-German translation dance with
legal review... iow delay that much more the paperwork for the
official legal registration of the Foundation.

And if it wasn't for all that I would still suggest that bylaws should
codify the 'minimum' required to maintain a functioning
Foundation in case of discord... It should not be an attempt to codify
_everything_ we do.

Such 'tradition' (like the non-biding vote at Apache for example), is
a matter of collective culture, something that evolve organically
by tacit consensus... over time.

You may have noticed that there is no 'biding -'1 in the current vote
so far (unless I missed one)
my understanding, is that they function a bit like a standard organization:
such a -1 is required to be accompanied with precise objections... and
in that case an attempt will be made to resolve such objections..
that is the 'consensus' model. So member with biding-vote that don't
actively support the proposal, but don't want to delay the proceedings
because their objections have already been expressed and cannot be
'resolved'.... tend to vote 0
(that is my perception of things.. I only have had few days to observe
the Apache process... so I could be wrong).
So you should not see such vote as a 'survey of the force in presence'
but as a 'search where the consensus lies'


PS: I don't think it is a good way to 'take the temperature' in the
community. it is just, maybe, a good way to take the temperature among
the people that follow a particular thread in a particular mailing
PS2: you can check the Apache bylaws, you'll see that there is nothing
in there about biding/non-biding votes.

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