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I turned this discussion inside out in my mind, and I think that we can
perhaps work it out if we ask a different question.
We all agree on the TM policy itself (we do, I think). There is but one
detail concerning the use of the TDF subline in a logo that is understood as
somewhat different (or not). The reason we have this discussion is that we,
or at least a majority of us believe that TDF itself on a logo should not be
used that easily.

So the question is: does the TM policy in abstracto give enough protection
to all of our trademarks, logos etc? If not, can we insert some additional

Hope this helps,


2011/3/8 Thorsten Behrens <>

Bernhard Dippold wrote:
As you should vote on the Trademark Policy, perhaps it would be
reasonable to leave the Logo Policy (having less legal weight IMHO)
aside for the moment.

Hi Bernhard, all,

well maybe - but maybe we should beforehand try to reach mutual
agreement on what we want to achieve (unless we want to go back &
change the trademark policy, possibly) -

Perhaps it would be sufficient to add a few words to this paragraph:

Hm, I don't think that really clears things up enough?

When you distribute a product that is allowed to be called
LibreOffice (and this has to be defined when it is compiled - at
least this is what I think as non-coder), this product contains the
logo *with* TDF subline, as it is "substantially unmodified".

Yes, and

    * Community made DVDs or USB keys with "LibreOffice"
    * Supporter websites referring to "LibreOffice"

It's the Usage Examples paragraph, the Rules paragraph is above:
"Individual community members and other people referring to our
product and the community should use the logo without the subline."

    As contrasted to the TDF mark, which is reserved for "substantially
unmodified" software. Does that mean we are even defending the
LibreOffice mark at all ? what are the limits on its use ? the TM policy
says it can only be used for "Substantially unmodified" software too.

That's the basic rule - nothing has changed here.

The product is only allowed to be called "LibreOffice", if it
contains the "substantially unmodified binaries".

But in the description of this product, references to the community,
merchandise or support people should not use the logo with TDF
subline, if they don't speak for the community or TDF.

And this is not clearly separated at all, I'm afraid. The catch is
that there's a very fuzzy border between a splash screen (being
permitted to display TDF), and a screenshot on a box (*not* being
permitted to display TDF, if handed out by a mere community member,
if I interpret you right?)

No - Charles just want to provide different visuals - and as they
aren't protected by an image mark, they can't interfere with the

I think that was Michael's issue - with the link to the logo
guidelines, they actually affect each other, legally. ;)

So if you're ok that if in doubt, the Trademark rules are the
authoritative ones (i.e. I don't want to revisit them, should we
later discover they contradict the intended logo guidelines), then
I'd agree with your proposal to remove the link to the logo
guidelines and approve the trademark rules as-is.


-- Thorsten

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